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The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics

dartmouth.edu

41–44 of 44 posts

Re: The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics

#41
post #40
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't make this about me. Read the history of math & tell me what conclusion you come to when you see people making algorithms, essentially, for dealing with natural processes.

Of course, as long as you stay in the realm of measurable things. However, we still need to explain how and why the perfect abstract mathematical objects are of any use in the real world (as opposed to other abstract objects such as patonician ideas, or more commonly gods).

>(as opposed to other abstract objects such as patonician ideas, or more commonly gods)

Well neither of those two deal with counting... We already know (historically, empirically) that counting & manipulating 'stuff' is what works for making applicable theories. Mathematical abstraction preserves those "traits", & makes the object more general - ie more flexible. Chess for example is about counting, but it's not explicitly written in a form that allows you to drop it in a theory.

I think the important thing is the traits aren't arbitrary. They were forced on people, eg you need to learn counting if you want to keep track of your goats.

Re: The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics

#42
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mathematics and physics are products of the mind, obviously. Mathematicians and physicists do their work by using their minds. They don't channel some divine truth--they merely filter what their mind makes through certain criteria. I don't understand this common tendency, exemplified by your comment, to shift attention away from how mind makes things, to the criteria according to which we filter them before we call t…

I'm not talking about how we build them. I'm talking about what they are, and what they are is as they would be whether they were built by humans or computers or nature. That the theorems follow from their axioms is not a human invention, nor could it be. There is a difference between discovering something and inventing it. Man could not invent mathematics any more than man could invent electricity. When I say physic…

You're "not talking about how we build them", but you were responding to my post where I am talking about how we build them. I'm gonna say it again: I don't understand this tendency to shift attention away from the "how"--rather insistently, in your case.

Re: The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics

#43
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mathematics and physics are products of the mind, obviously. Mathematicians and physicists do their work by using their minds. They don't channel some divine truth--they merely filter what their mind makes through certain criteria. I don't understand this common tendency, exemplified by your comment, to shift attention away from how mind makes things, to the criteria according to which we filter them before we call t…

On philosophy of mathematics, have you checked out Reuben Hersh? Or Lakatos? They're much more interesting to me than the usual platonism/formalism. I'm guessing platonism/formalism were popular in arguing against other ways of understanding the world, like folk science, authoritarianism and mysticism. (I'm not equating the last three.) Maybe also as a foundation myth for professional mathematics.

Thanks--I'll check them out. I hope it's the kind of stuff that is only called philosophy, but actually falls under the purview of science, which doesn't yet have a framework to deal with it. That's the only kind of "philosophy" I've ever found of value.

Re: The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics

#44
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about how we build them. I'm talking about what they are, and what they are is as they would be whether they were built by humans or computers or nature. That the theorems follow from their axioms is not a human invention, nor could it be. There is a difference between discovering something and inventing it. Man could not invent mathematics any more than man could invent electricity. When I say physic…

You're "not talking about how we build them", but you were responding to my post where I am talking about how we build them. I'm gonna say it again: I don't understand this tendency to shift attention away from the "how"--rather insistently, in your case.

Either you're not just talking about how we build them or I misunderstand you, because the first thing you said was, "Mathematics is a product of the mind."
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