Tilt is shutting down • Hacker News Board

Re: Tilt is shutting down

#41

Post by wwalser » Sat, May 27, 2017, 6:12 AM UTC

lgas wrote: post #39

wwalser wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would someone reading this assume that they will do something illegal? Why is that the conclusion that _anyone_ jumps to? Considered, if possible, that if money isn't out by the deadline that they will do… some other legal and responsible thing with the money. Hand it over the the governing jurisdiction as "unclaimed property"? More pro-actively reach out to people? Nothing in this statement says they are going t…

I don't understand the desire to assume other people's interpretations are the results of them desiring to interpret things that way rather than having just interpreted them that way naturally.

This is entirely fair. I think when someone's take differs from our own, it's easy to assume that it took effort for them to get there. You're right though. It was probably just what jumped into their mind.

When I do have a negative interpretation of someone's words, and I'm sure I'm less good at this than I like to imagine myself, I like to think that I at least try to imagine how they would have liked me to interpret those words. This sounds kind of, moral platitude-ish. I don't mean it in that way. Attempting to interpret someone charitably is a self defense. It's for me. I need to think this way to keep myself settled. If I don't, I end up angry at everything.

I think you're right and I appreciate the insight. Thanks.

Re: Tilt is shutting down

#42

Post by jasonlfunk » Sat, May 27, 2017, 6:16 AM UTC

It's amazing how many of these services I find out about in their "shutting down" announcements.

Re: Tilt is shutting down

#43

Post by wastedhours » Sat, May 27, 2017, 8:14 AM UTC

dismantlethesun wrote: post #32

jacquesm wrote: post #6

> You can also initiate withdrawals for any collected funds to your bank account through the Tilt platform until June 12, 2017. I highly doubt that is legal. If you hold third party funds you can't just make some arbitrary statement or the money is yours. They will have to make a reasonable effort to reach the affected parties and they will have to give them ample time to withdraw their funds.

Deadline to withdraw easily via the existing platform. After that.... since Tilt is technically acquired, and not bankrupt, you can still get your money but you'll have to use slow offline legal methods like sending certified letters, or going through ombudsmen.

That's the logical interpretation, however, when there's money on the table and a (valid) interpretation that it will be lost, they need to be explicit and not have any ambiguity around the process. Their FAQ is no help in this as well [0].

This is all basic comms stuff, would have thought Airbnb would have been all over it. All it takes is a little line: "after 12 June, you will still be able to claim any unredeemed funds by contacting XYZ@tilt.com, from the email address associated with your account..., this may take 10-12 weeks, so we advise you withdraw using our fast and simple bank account withdrawals before 12 June." or something.

[0] https://support.tilt.com/hc/en-us

Re: Tilt is shutting down

#44

Post by hueving » Sat, May 27, 2017, 8:28 AM UTC

hueving wrote: post #31

djrogers wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ability for their platform to facilitate racism Hunh? Care to elaborate on a) what specifically AirBNB does to facilitate racism, and b) what you'd expect them to change about their 'platform' to stop people from being horrible?

As a property lister, you are able to see the profile pic and name of the person asking to rent from you. This enables people to decide based on race/sexism pretty easily.

Not sure why this was downvoted, it's trivial for discrimination to occur when so much detail about a potential tenant is revealed and no reason needs to be provided for a rejection.

Re: Tilt is shutting down

#45

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 27, 2017, 8:54 AM UTC

Top19 wrote: post #28

djrogers wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ability for their platform to facilitate racism Hunh? Care to elaborate on a) what specifically AirBNB does to facilitate racism, and b) what you'd expect them to change about their 'platform' to stop people from being horrible?

In regards to AirBnB, there were a lot of concerns that people were simply not renting out to certain races. Stuff like a black male tries to rent for a certain date, gets denied, and then an hour later a white female tries to rent it for the same date and is approved by the owner. I believe in the example I'm citing the person affected actually created the second account of the "white female" and tried to keep the l…

[deleted]

Re: Tilt is shutting down

#46

Post by michaelmrose » Sat, May 27, 2017, 9:13 AM UTC

wwalser wrote: post #38

jacquesm wrote: post #6

> You can also initiate withdrawals for any collected funds to your bank account through the Tilt platform until June 12, 2017. I highly doubt that is legal. If you hold third party funds you can't just make some arbitrary statement or the money is yours. They will have to make a reasonable effort to reach the affected parties and they will have to give them ample time to withdraw their funds.

Why would someone reading this assume that they will do something illegal? Why is that the conclusion that _anyone_ jumps to? Considered, if possible, that if money isn't out by the deadline that they will do… some other legal and responsible thing with the money. Hand it over the the governing jurisdiction as "unclaimed property"? More pro-actively reach out to people? Nothing in this statement says they are going t…

People are in general bad, selfish, stupid creatures at heart.

Corporations are entities in which the most selfish rise to the top.

Any reading of intentions that gives corporate press releases even the slightest benefits of doubt is probably too charitable.

Corporations at the best of times don't chop you up and feed you to pigs because you or your next of kin would stop giving them money. When it's on its way downhill even that incentive isn't terribly strong.

Various corporate entities have repeatedly proved they would literally rather kill people than make less money if they think they can escape culpability and people still don't understand that you have no value to these people.

"You can also initiate withdrawals for any collected funds to your bank account through the Tilt platform until June 12, 2017"

A plain reading of these words is after 6-12 you cannot withdraw your money. If you were unclear you could check out the faq which reiterates this.

The most charitable reading possible is that they know this would be illegal and intend to mislead people into believing this so that they will be able to close up shop easier.

Re: Tilt is shutting down

#47

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 27, 2017, 9:16 AM UTC

wwalser wrote: post #41

lgas wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the desire to assume other people's interpretations are the results of them desiring to interpret things that way rather than having just interpreted them that way naturally.

This is entirely fair. I think when someone's take differs from our own, it's easy to assume that it took effort for them to get there. You're right though. It was probably just what jumped into their mind. When I do have a negative interpretation of someone's words, and I'm sure I'm less good at this than I like to imagine myself, I like to think that I at least try to imagine how they would have liked me to interpr…

[deleted]

Re: Tilt is shutting down

#48

Post by michalu » Sat, May 27, 2017, 10:35 AM UTC

econnors wrote: post #21

molyss wrote: post #11

2 weeks to withdraw your money ? That's just ridiculous. Some people are on holidays, some are sick, some are just unable to do it in such a small timeframe...

There's a chance their customers were told earlier. I assume they'd also make an effort to reach out to people with balances as the deadline approached.

No, I just received an email today... seems like it was one hour sooner on HN than in my inbox.

Re: Tilt is shutting down

#49

Post by camus2 » Sat, May 27, 2017, 3:13 PM UTC

wwalser wrote: post #38

jacquesm wrote: post #6

> You can also initiate withdrawals for any collected funds to your bank account through the Tilt platform until June 12, 2017. I highly doubt that is legal. If you hold third party funds you can't just make some arbitrary statement or the money is yours. They will have to make a reasonable effort to reach the affected parties and they will have to give them ample time to withdraw their funds.

Why would someone reading this assume that they will do something illegal? Why is that the conclusion that _anyone_ jumps to? Considered, if possible, that if money isn't out by the deadline that they will do… some other legal and responsible thing with the money. Hand it over the the governing jurisdiction as "unclaimed property"? More pro-actively reach out to people? Nothing in this statement says they are going t…

> Nothing in this statement says they are going to do something illegal. There is no "…or we'll keep it". That line isn't in there. Your mind had to fabricate it.

The statement itself violates the law. It is setting up a deadline for customers to withdraw their funds which is completely illegal in all Europe.

Re: Tilt is shutting down

#50

Post by detaro » Sat, May 27, 2017, 3:15 PM UTC

camus2 wrote: post #49

wwalser wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would someone reading this assume that they will do something illegal? Why is that the conclusion that _anyone_ jumps to? Considered, if possible, that if money isn't out by the deadline that they will do… some other legal and responsible thing with the money. Hand it over the the governing jurisdiction as "unclaimed property"? More pro-actively reach out to people? Nothing in this statement says they are going t…

> Nothing in this statement says they are going to do something illegal. There is no "…or we'll keep it". That line isn't in there. Your mind had to fabricate it. The statement itself violates the law. It is setting up a deadline for customers to withdraw their funds which is completely illegal in all Europe.

They are setting a deadline for withdrawal "through the platform" (which they presumably will shut down then), not explicitly for withdrawals at all. (I mean, it's possible that they are that dumb, but it seems highly unlikely and legally very clear cut)