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Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

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Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#41

Post by runamok »

tsaoutourpants wrote: post #18
jaclaz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is perfectly possible that a scanning device disappeared somewhere, it is not the only way someone can study how to conceal hidden explosive in luggage. I mean are the people that operate daily these machines vetted to a level where you can totally exclude that they (in ALL airports wordwide) can be affiliated to whatever evil organization and do some tests after hours? Does the same happen for all technicia…

Hi jaclaz, > I mean are the people that operate daily these machines vetted to a level where you can totally exclude that they (in ALL airports wordwide) can be affiliated to whatever evil organization and do some tests after hours? No, although after-hours testing may set off some alarms. I'm sure their on-hours experience would be useful, though. > Does the same happen for all technicians that maintain/repair these…

My wife works in import/export compliance. There are many regulations associated with many types of technology requiring you to get licenses, "know your customer", etc. I would guess the latest and greatest of this tech for would be governed by EAR if not ITAR regulations.

ref: http://ooc.usc.edu/overview-ear-and-itar

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#42

Post by tsaoutourpants »

jakobdabo wrote: post #37
tsaoutourpants wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_...

See also: https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone

The Fifth Amendment still applies in the "constitution free zone." The name is a bit exaggerated by the ACLU to make their point.

No matter where you are, the U.S.government cannot force you to speak as a condition of flying home. Just be quiet rather than deceitful.

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#43

Post by pas »

tsaoutourpants wrote: post #19
wwwv wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not opaque to X-Rays, much less the ludicrous penetrating power used in baggage inspection. Baggage X-rays can happily penetrate inches of metal, nothing short of lead brick will obscure contents and that's going to raise other questions. Where did you get that nonsense from?

X-ray machines have to be calibrated. While you could turn up the power to see through metal, you would then be unable to see the less dense items. This makes it difficult to do a full inspection in the few seconds that the screener has.

So .. there's no HDR setting on them?

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#44

Post by tsaoutourpants »

borplk wrote: post #35
tsaoutourpants wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? No, that's a wholly unnecessary solution (though more standardization of batteries would certainly be nice). Swab the outside of the laptop for bomb residue, which would be especially difficult to clean from a laptop because the stronger solvents to clean with (like acetone) would mark the plastic. Or hire more dogs. Or make a "puffer machine" for laptops (blasts with air and then samples the air for explosive…

Is the puffer machine a thing? Or you just came up with it?

They had puffer machines for people in 2006. They stopped using them because they required regular maintenance. Then they replaced them with the body scanners, which cost more than the puffer machine and a full time maintenance person in every airport in the country combined.

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#45

Post by mikeyouse »

borplk wrote: post #35
tsaoutourpants wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? No, that's a wholly unnecessary solution (though more standardization of batteries would certainly be nice). Swab the outside of the laptop for bomb residue, which would be especially difficult to clean from a laptop because the stronger solvents to clean with (like acetone) would mark the plastic. Or hire more dogs. Or make a "puffer machine" for laptops (blasts with air and then samples the air for explosive…

Is the puffer machine a thing? Or you just came up with it?

Nope, they're a thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffer_machine

> The machine operates by releasing multiple puffs of air at a passenger who is standing upright within the machine. This will flush out any particles on the person inside the machine then analyze and identify them in seconds.[6] According to an article in the 16 June, 2005, New York Times, it is capable of screening up to 180 passengers an hour.[7] This sample is then analyzed using IMS or MS technology to search for specific explosive or narcotic compounds. If a substance of concern is detected, the security personnel are notified by a visible and/or audible alarm.

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#46

Post by jaclaz »

tsaoutourpants wrote: post #18
jaclaz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is perfectly possible that a scanning device disappeared somewhere, it is not the only way someone can study how to conceal hidden explosive in luggage. I mean are the people that operate daily these machines vetted to a level where you can totally exclude that they (in ALL airports wordwide) can be affiliated to whatever evil organization and do some tests after hours? Does the same happen for all technicia…

Hi jaclaz, > I mean are the people that operate daily these machines vetted to a level where you can totally exclude that they (in ALL airports wordwide) can be affiliated to whatever evil organization and do some tests after hours? No, although after-hours testing may set off some alarms. I'm sure their on-hours experience would be useful, though. > Does the same happen for all technicians that maintain/repair these…

>The modern, advanced x-ray systems are not available to the general public. As to how exactly they are controlled, I'm not sure.

Sure they are not something that you can buy at the market around the corner, and surely they would not be cheap, but they can surely be bought by (say) financial institutions, banks, etc. (i.e. not only by airports, and public/international airports).

Now, if you can be sure that no bank (or other private financial institution) nor privately owned airport or port (or similar) worldwide may have some connections with the "bad guys" it's all fine and dandy, otherwise my previous note still stands.

I don't doubt that - as you report - the alarm may have been "triggered" by the stealing (or however vanishing) of the said machine, but from this to consider it "logic" there is a huge step.

At least the last few times I have flown (not to the US that may well have much different and more sophisticated devices) here in Europe I saw everywhere Gilardoni scanners (said to be among the best at least in Europe), like the ones published on their pages:

http://www.gilardoni.it/en_scanner-a-raggi-x.asp

And are you really sure-sure that all the scanners you can find on alibaba are tat much oudated?

https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?SearchText=x-ray+scanne...

It doesn't seem to me like shopping for cruise missiles or the like ...

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#47

Post by jaclaz »

runamok wrote: post #41
tsaoutourpants wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi jaclaz, > I mean are the people that operate daily these machines vetted to a level where you can totally exclude that they (in ALL airports wordwide) can be affiliated to whatever evil organization and do some tests after hours? No, although after-hours testing may set off some alarms. I'm sure their on-hours experience would be useful, though. > Does the same happen for all technicians that maintain/repair these…

My wife works in import/export compliance. There are many regulations associated with many types of technology requiring you to get licenses, "know your customer", etc. I would guess the latest and greatest of this tech for would be governed by EAR if not ITAR regulations. ref: http://ooc.usc.edu/overview-ear-and-itar

Yep, but that applies (maybe) to the US.

What about any other country, for the sake of the example, Wherevereristan?

Do they have the same rules?

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#48

Post by tsaoutourpants »

jaclaz wrote: post #46
tsaoutourpants wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi jaclaz, > I mean are the people that operate daily these machines vetted to a level where you can totally exclude that they (in ALL airports wordwide) can be affiliated to whatever evil organization and do some tests after hours? No, although after-hours testing may set off some alarms. I'm sure their on-hours experience would be useful, though. > Does the same happen for all technicians that maintain/repair these…

>The modern, advanced x-ray systems are not available to the general public. As to how exactly they are controlled, I'm not sure. Sure they are not something that you can buy at the market around the corner, and surely they would not be cheap, but they can surely be bought by (say) financial institutions, banks, etc. (i.e. not only by airports, and public/international airports). Now, if you can be sure that no bank…

I'm certainly not arguing that DHS uses perfectly sound logic. I'm just explaining their reasoning, however flawed. I agree that this kind of "reactive" security is less than comforting.

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#49

Post by jacquesm »

leggomylibro wrote: post #7

>So why was the stolen x-ray equipment kept a secret? I asked my source if there was some security reason for keeping the stolen x-ray equipment from the public, and was told, unequivocally, no. “It’s because the mom from the midwest planning to fly her kids to Disney would freak out. They are worried that people would stop flying if they knew.” Kind of ironic, because I've already stopped flying - not because I'm af…

> renting a stateroom on a cargo ship seems like a very relaxing way to go if you have the time.

Clearly you've never been in a storm at sea. Or did I mis-interpret your meaning of 'to go'?

Re: Laptop Ban a Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS

#50

Post by kmonsen »

tsaoutourpants wrote: post #42
jakobdabo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also: https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone

The Fifth Amendment still applies in the "constitution free zone." The name is a bit exaggerated by the ACLU to make their point. No matter where you are, the U.S.government cannot force you to speak as a condition of flying home. Just be quiet rather than deceitful.

I don't think this is true. If some government agent tells the pilot you are a "security risk" for any reason you are not going on that plane or if you are already in it they will drag you out.

The plane is a private property so you can be taken of for any reason.

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