Earlier quoted context omitted.
Two passwords, one wipes the device the other unlocks.
Which will lead to an Obstruction of Justice charge or similar.
And The Justice of Obstruction is something that only politicians would have...
UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords
41–47 of 47 posts
Re: UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the governments claim they have authority to search your phone, then the only solution is not to store things on your phone during those border activities. Any system for denial of access will simply be considered obstruction. So technical solutions would simply be to have a backup somewhere, with no trace of the backup software on the device itself. Get to where you're going, go to the website, or download the ap…
What I don't understand about the "create a backup" approach is that the government could simply ask you to surrender the backup. You shouldn't lie about having one, since that's (probably) a felony! Also, what's to stop them from asking for your email or other account passwords?
Depending on the jurisdiction, the government agent may not be able to ask for the backup.
I only know US border control considerations and they can only legally ask for access to what you have on you when you cross the border. If you are an American citizen (or permanent resident) you can decline, and they may well seize your device(s) but cannot deny you entrance. If you are a visitor to the US they can legally deny you entry if you do not comply with their vague and ever changing requests.
But in neither scenario could they legally demand access to a backup copy: they can only ask for access to items in your possession while crossing the border, otherwise they would need to get a warrant.
Re: UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords
#43One solution is for all other countries' border control started to demand passwords to unlock phone/all social apps for UK citizens, SPECIALLY target UK politicians and government workers. Love to see any/all the interesting info one can find from the politicians.
Politicians are exempt. Seriously.
Diplomats are exempt, but a random Member of Parliament is not.
Re: UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords
#44Follow up from previous HN submitted article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14340137 Surprised more app developers are not creating solutions to this kind of thing - e.g. some form of multisig authorisation to access certain files or 2FA that relies on the second factor only being available at times access is genuinely needed.
I'm not a lawyer, but I very strongly doubt deliberately making yourself unavailable to give the password on demand is going to be perceived by a court as as cute a way around this law as you believe it to be. There's no technological solutions to things like this, only political ones.
There is a technological solution: plausible deniability. Devices/apps need two passwords: one unlocks your normal and secret files, and the other only unlocks your normal files. Agents asking for your passwords would see evidence of normal use only. Sort of a "can't prove a negative" defense.
The problem is that HN-types want to assert cryptographic power over agents of governments, ie I won't show you my files and you can't make me so I win.
Re: UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
What I don't understand about the "create a backup" approach is that the government could simply ask you to surrender the backup. You shouldn't lie about having one, since that's (probably) a felony! Also, what's to stop them from asking for your email or other account passwords?
Depending on the jurisdiction, the government agent may not be able to ask for the backup. I only know US border control considerations and they can only legally ask for access to what you have on you when you cross the border. If you are an American citizen (or permanent resident) you can decline, and they may well seize your device(s) but cannot deny you entrance. If you are a visitor to the US they can legally den…
The law appears to be unclear for permanent residents:
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/business/border-enforc...
Re: UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
I toyed with building an application like this, except that you just carry your device with you. The application basically tarballs your entire environment up, offsites it, and then wipes and factory-resets your device (incidentally I got lost in the rabbit hole of trying to wipe an SSD heh). It's completely clean, you can surrender your device for inspection, give passwords, etc. And then after you're through, you d…
But this makes it very obvious you've reset your phone. Which is a red flag - although not technically illegal, so far. You really want something that looks like an in-use device and gives no hint that you have sensitive files stored anywhere else.
It would have been configurable. The important thing is that your blob of data (e.g. VeraCrypt volume) is offsited and wiped. You could leave your laptop otherwise completely lived-in, just not containing your data anymore. Otherwise, I've worked for companies that gave out loaner phones for overseas travel. A factory-reset phone is much less suspicious than a threadbare "factory-reset" laptop.
Re: UK Police Charge Activist for Refusing to Hand Over Passwords
#47I recently flew to the U.S. - I did consider wiping my iPhone in advance and then restoring it from iCloud backup once safely in the hotel, but in the end just left it at home. It was very nice taking a break too. Of course, as a fairly unremarkable middle-aged white guy, I didn't get stopped at all.
This makes me wonder what the statistical likelihood of 'getting into trouble' is for 'unremarkable' people entering the US (by flight).
If I'd fly to the US (unlikely), I'd definitely wipe my phone or leave it at home. But since I'm also 'unremarkable', I'm now wondering if perhaps the chance of getting into trouble is ridiculously small for me, and that perhaps I'm in a bit of a bubble of my own going through all this (pointless) trouble to be 'safe'.