If India were smart they would copy China and ban Facebook, Google and the rest of the American web companies. This would have the effect of creating powerhouse Indian web companies similar to Alibaba, Tencent, Baidu, etc in China which are now starting to break out to become global brands. India more than has the talent to pull this off.
Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers
41–50 of 87 posts
Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've met a few brilliant Indian engineers. I asked one of them why he was different to his peers. He explained that most of his peers don't enjoy or like what they are doing. They chose to become a developer, because it's a potential path to become a 'manager', which has a higher status in the eyes of their parents, friends and family. Edit: But we have to be careful not to stereo type. I think a comment made here is…
True, I am an Indian engineer living in India and have written one of the most user friendly guides to writing webapps in Go, https://github.com/thewhitetulip/web-dev-golang-anti-textboo... Thus, we can't just generalize.
Thanks for sharing that link. A developer friend wants to explore GO, so I'll be forwarding your work.
Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers
#43Despite the title of the article, I see one thing unmentioned: general reputation of incompetence. However, nearly everybody I know in IT, from different countries and backgrounds, knows "Indian code" to be a meme of not only bad quality but gross, mind-boggling incompetence. I don't have a personal experience with indian companies and/or engineers, so don't have a personal opinion on that matter. If anything, it see…
Come on what general reputation of incompetence? Just take a look at proportion of indians at top engineering and management positions in Tech Companies. This "meme" is nothing but some racist stereotype pushed by old commenters on Slashdot style website who paint themselves to be next turing award material. Guess what the Market never lies and you get what you pay for! Those who pay the best/most still have large nu…
Call it whatever you want, the average indian github account has some of the weirdest shit I've ever seen. Saving stuff to txt instead of database, make download 500kb json on each login, callback hell...
I'm sure a proper indian engineer wont do this stuff, but the quantity of indian people who make bad code (and bad english) amazes me.
Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers
#44While many Indians seeking employment abroad are impacted a lot by these changes, I don't think the sentiment behind these changes has much to do with Indian people per se. There's a global backlash against too much immigration in general. Indians are just caught in the mix.
In the UK we have had a 'Polish plumber' stereotype develop over the last decade or so. Basically, if you want your plumbing or building done properly then you really want the 'Polish plumber' and not the British guy. It is commonly understood that the Pole has the work ethic, the Brit from the estate down the road does not.
I think that parallel to the 'Polish plumber' we had the 'Indian call center' stereotype happen. The call to the call center was a horrific thing, thank goodness that off-shore madness came to an end. Along the way I think a lot of things were tarnished, any work with an Indian company would have overtones of the call center nightmare years.
Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers
#45If India were smart they would copy China and ban Facebook, Google and the rest of the American web companies. This would have the effect of creating powerhouse Indian web companies similar to Alibaba, Tencent, Baidu, etc in China which are now starting to break out to become global brands. India more than has the talent to pull this off.
China didn't ban those web companies for using their local talent. They did it as part of their censorship practices. There are plenty of Indian people working now in Google, Facebook etc. Google CEO itself is an Indian. It would be extremely foolish of any government to ban any entity solely to create an alternative with the hope of utilising its local talent. In India, so far this kind of discussions is solely focused on getting tax concessions for home grown companies (like for Flipkart, Ola which are Indian Amazon, Uber respectively). Even then, they are faced with lot of flak, since their investor money is mostly from abroad.
Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers
#46If India were smart they would copy China and ban Facebook, Google and the rest of the American web companies. This would have the effect of creating powerhouse Indian web companies similar to Alibaba, Tencent, Baidu, etc in China which are now starting to break out to become global brands. India more than has the talent to pull this off.
You can't be serious. This would lead to absolute chaos. India is not China. It is an actual democracy, for a start.
Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bringing in low cost foreign workers to maintain a system directly drags down the average wage, hurting Americans in the IT industry and lowering their income & benefits. Foreign workers are a tool that companies like to use to scare IT workers away from organizing & unionizing, keeping the Americans they do employ under foot and poorly paid. As an example, Kroger has a support center for its Fred Meyer brand of stor…
> hurting Americans in the IT industry ... Well, the ones who are hurting, would always be hurting. They really do not need the Indians to assist them to hurt. They will perfectly-well hurt all alone by themselves. But then again, our beloved Donald Trump has promised them to do something about their hurting. He will force employers all over to hire them, regardless of whether these employers like that prospect or no…
Or he'll ignore all (ok 98%) of his campaign promises while ruthlessly lining his and his offspring's pockets...
You know... Either or...
(Hint: He'll be lining his pockets.)
Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers
#48Despite the title of the article, I see one thing unmentioned: general reputation of incompetence. However, nearly everybody I know in IT, from different countries and backgrounds, knows "Indian code" to be a meme of not only bad quality but gross, mind-boggling incompetence. I don't have a personal experience with indian companies and/or engineers, so don't have a personal opinion on that matter. If anything, it see…
Shit code doesn't have nationality. But in general outsourcing works only if you have strong technical leadership onshore. And this job sucks. I managed Infy's onshore/offshore team and it was decent but it was hard due to our management being dickheads and Indians being shielded by their management so basically our comms were filtered by two layers of nonsense and 1-2 days of time difference. Onshore guys were great…
> "Shit code doesn't have nationality."
It obviously has if they come from a country where education is generally shitty when in comes to know how to code.
I'm not saying that's the case with India since I know nothing about the education there, but as a general proposition, yes, it seems obvious that people from some a particular country can be generally shitty coders due to their education system of course.
Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure if it's tribalism so much as protecting the local economy against salary arbitrage.
Are the products of your "local economy" sold locally. If not, then you have no right to claim protection.
People don't want what's fair, people want what's better for them.
I don't want my wage to lower just so people in the third world can live better because I, honestly, don't give a fuck about them. That's the sentiment that's rising lately.
Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers
#50Despite the title of the article, I see one thing unmentioned: general reputation of incompetence. However, nearly everybody I know in IT, from different countries and backgrounds, knows "Indian code" to be a meme of not only bad quality but gross, mind-boggling incompetence. I don't have a personal experience with indian companies and/or engineers, so don't have a personal opinion on that matter. If anything, it see…
Come on what general reputation of incompetence? Just take a look at proportion of indians at top engineering and management positions in Tech Companies. This "meme" is nothing but some racist stereotype pushed by old commenters on Slashdot style website who paint themselves to be next turing award material. Guess what the Market never lies and you get what you pay for! Those who pay the best/most still have large nu…
The proportion of Indians at the top does not give the right picture.
The Market means a lot of things. There might be a market for low cost and cheap things now and a need for high quality later. The current reason for the top management and engineering position just reflects this snapshot. In the dot-com boom the market did not need high quality engineers. As the market matures it needs more and more high quality engineers.
Currently it is both a good and bad thing. It will weed out a lot of terrible engineers and the good ones who were obscured by the politics might froth to the top. The bad thing is that a lot of good engineers would simply be phased out of the market in the coming implosion.