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Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

notepad-plus-plus.org

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Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#41

Post by jbarham »

Groxx wrote: post #36
melling wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law is ridiculous or complying with it? I think some people live in a fairy tale world. North Korea, for example, recently sunk a South Korean ship killing 41 people. There really are bad people in the world. Personally, I think the Cuba issue is legacy and it's probably time to resolve it. The fear of communism is long gone. Now I think it's just a matter of a bunch of rich voters in Florida who want their natio…

Ooooh kay, lets look at the practicality of this: If North Korea (as a government ) wants something from Sourceforge's site, will blocking access to the site really prevent them from doing so for more than a second? Meanwhile, if a North Korean wants something from Sourceforge's site, why are you blocking it? Similar to above, they can still get it, but all you're doing is punishing the civilians, most of whom have l…

Even if are any "civilian" internet users in North Korea (unlikely since using the internet requires government approval), I think it's safe to say that being stymied by US export restrictions on Sourceforge is the least of their problems...

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#42

Post by noarchy »

melvin wrote: post #20
melling wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law is ridiculous or complying with it? I think some people live in a fairy tale world. North Korea, for example, recently sunk a South Korean ship killing 41 people. There really are bad people in the world. Personally, I think the Cuba issue is legacy and it's probably time to resolve it. The fear of communism is long gone. Now I think it's just a matter of a bunch of rich voters in Florida who want their natio…

I agree, it's a law and they're following it. Sourceforge and Google are not responsible for that. As far as North Korea, um... so, when the US kills 25 Afghans at a wedding ("oops! my video-game like predator drone readout made it look like they were definitely terrorists") what does that mean? I guess France should stop exporting Notepad++ to the US. Correct? No, the issue is whether 'exporting' a text editor to N.…

They don't send email, as we've learned. They send an internet.

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#43

Post by noarchy »

dotBen wrote: post #30
melling wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law is ridiculous or complying with it? I think some people live in a fairy tale world. North Korea, for example, recently sunk a South Korean ship killing 41 people. There really are bad people in the world. Personally, I think the Cuba issue is legacy and it's probably time to resolve it. The fear of communism is long gone. Now I think it's just a matter of a bunch of rich voters in Florida who want their natio…

"I think some people live in a fairy tale world." You're also in a fairy tale world if you think that 'axis of evil' countries are not going to get their hands on whatever opensource software they like. Most of this stuff is mirrored all over the place and so there is little one can do to stop this (assuming it is worth stopping them in the first place).

This stuff is mirrored all over the place precisely so that it remains available. And that is how it should be, imo.

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#44

Post by metamemetics »

Good excuse for giving the site a much needed facelift.

I used to use it as a decent super-lightweight IDE with the "Explorer" plugin locked to the right side and the all the icon toolbars hidden. I mainly use Eclipse now that I finally configured it how I want, but I still used Notepad++ today to teach a graphic designer HTML and CSS. Due to Notepad++, I can't use an editor that doesn't have highlight-on-click for matching opening and closing tags anymore out of annoyance.

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#45

Post by DLWormwood »

jmillikin wrote: post #19

SourceForge doesn't have much choice in this, unless they're willing to violate US law. For what it's worth, SourceForge allows projects to determine whether their downloads are subject to export laws, and to disable the blocks[1]. Support for this was added in early February, several months before the notepad-plus-plus.org domain was registered. There's no technical or legal reason why N++ had to move off SourceForg…

> There's no technical or legal reason why N++ had to move off SourceForge; they're simply throwing a hissy fit.

What's wrong with moving off the server out of principle? While I'm American, I can't fault these guys if they suddenly felt less secure about the hosting of their work by a US company, especially if it's due to political reasons they'd have no recourse over if at some future point they risk being targeted (even unintentionally) by a future policy.

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#46

Post by makmanalp »

melling wrote: post #34
melvin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, it's a law and they're following it. Sourceforge and Google are not responsible for that. As far as North Korea, um... so, when the US kills 25 Afghans at a wedding ("oops! my video-game like predator drone readout made it look like they were definitely terrorists") what does that mean? I guess France should stop exporting Notepad++ to the US. Correct? No, the issue is whether 'exporting' a text editor to N.…

So, you are arguing that an accidental killing is the same as an intentional one? You do realize that the US killings were an accident, correct? Friendly fire...kind of like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman Here's a friendly fire list on Wikipedia. Most probably don't get cataloged. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire So, it's safe to assume it will happen again in every current and future war. T…

I don't think the point was to attack your example. I think the point was that some governments might be doing bad things, but why does this have to condemn the people?

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#47

Post by [deleted] »

mquander wrote: post #35
melling wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) No I can't. Can you prove the opposite? No. Pointless argument. Yes! So why even make it? Can you find North Korea on this map? http://paradoxoff.com/north-korea-night-map.html I bet there aren't too many hackers staying up until dawn hacking on Notepad++. Why does a country with no electricity want to be on this list? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_wea... People in power, or anyone else…

The reason I made point 1 is because our default decision should always err on the side of freedom. Why would you bother restricting anything unless you can identify some benefit to restricting it? It's more work, and maximizing freedom often results in positive results when the freedom turns out to be useful in a way you didn't expect. For all I know, not a single man in North Korea knows what the hell Notepad++ is.…

[deleted]

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#48

Post by blantonl »

DLWormwood wrote: post #45
jmillikin wrote: post #19

SourceForge doesn't have much choice in this, unless they're willing to violate US law. For what it's worth, SourceForge allows projects to determine whether their downloads are subject to export laws, and to disable the blocks[1]. Support for this was added in early February, several months before the notepad-plus-plus.org domain was registered. There's no technical or legal reason why N++ had to move off SourceForg…

> There's no technical or legal reason why N++ had to move off SourceForge; they're simply throwing a hissy fit. What's wrong with moving off the server out of principle? While I'm American, I can't fault these guys if they suddenly felt less secure about the hosting of their work by a US company, especially if it's due to political reasons they'd have no recourse over if at some future point they risk being targeted…

Acting on "out of principle" could be a quicker way to deep-six your business adventure.

Making political statements with your open source project releases leaves your project, and now political views, completely open to the community.

That is what they wanted, and that is what they will get - good or bad.

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#49

Post by hazzen »

Devilboy wrote: post #38
melling wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you are arguing that an accidental killing is the same as an intentional one? You do realize that the US killings were an accident, correct? Friendly fire...kind of like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman Here's a friendly fire list on Wikipedia. Most probably don't get cataloged. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire So, it's safe to assume it will happen again in every current and future war. T…

I think you may have missed his point

The point we should all take away from this is to avoid inflammatory comments that segue into the point you actually want to make. They serve only to distract and weaken the opinion.

A simpler statement would have sufficed - say, "I believe these laws are too broad and should be rethought, as the impact of violating it in this case would be negligible." Civility is key.

Re: Notepad++ leaves SourceForge

#50

Post by jojopotato »

mojuba wrote: post #13
jojopotato wrote: post #8

Gah, I wish there was a contact link on there that wasn't twitter. The typo "fondamental" bugs me, then when looking for contact info I found "Developper" done over and over.

Just for the sake of explanation, "fondamental" and "développeur" are French words.

I figured because it was repeated it was simply the same word in a different language, but having it presented as English bugged me some =P
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