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Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

npr.org

41–50 of 359 posts

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#41

I think we'd all be better off if basically everything was open source, by way of eliminating intellectual property protections provided by governments. As an alternate solution, those of us with engineering skills can work to create an open source economy with open source factories, computers, and products. This would never be a problem nor would it be likely to happen if genuinely competitive options existed for fa…

I wonder how much more the bunghole of the RIAA/MPAA would tighten up with DRM if it wasn't even illegal to copy stuff they publish with reckless regard. You'd basically have to outlaw DRM too, or everyone would just make their stuff unusable/uncopyable.

If DRM became illegal to even attempt, they'd have a brief period of panic followed by a nice jump in profit when they finally realize they've been wasting bunghole loads of dollars applying DRM to stuff for no reason.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#42

I wonder, is the a GPL tractor software project out there yet?

So, we have: 1) Blackbox on-board computers, probably dozens of subtle configuration variations 2) Blackbox binary-only, possibly obfuscated firmware 3) Possibly TiVo-ized runtime. 4) Farmers as the ones who'd possibly be interested. 5) Then, manufacturers could sue for various DMCA violations

I'd say the odds of this happening would be some 1e-3 a year.

This is a policy issue that shouldn't be attacked technically. Better get the farmer write their Congress members.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#43
post #34

I think we'd all be better off if basically everything was open source, by way of eliminating intellectual property protections provided by governments. As an alternate solution, those of us with engineering skills can work to create an open source economy with open source factories, computers, and products. This would never be a problem nor would it be likely to happen if genuinely competitive options existed for fa…

"Everything open source" would take away the incentive for people to create essentially all media professionally: software, music, TVs/movies, podcasts, journalism, and more. Many industries would be destroyed if they didn't have the right to sell their creations (if anyone could copy them and give them away). I personally enjoy the media created by many organizations such as NPR, which made the article we're reading…

Going back to "...limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries" would do wonders to making the situation w/ copyright better.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#44

I think we'd all be better off if basically everything was open source, by way of eliminating intellectual property protections provided by governments. As an alternate solution, those of us with engineering skills can work to create an open source economy with open source factories, computers, and products. This would never be a problem nor would it be likely to happen if genuinely competitive options existed for fa…

The biggest concern I see with eliminating IP is that it effectively eliminates an incentive for innovation. That doesn't mean innovation halts completely, but if the system of compensation does not change, it can be reasonably expected that rates of innovation adjust according to the incentives available for innovators.

What I would prefer is a discounted lump sum paid out to IP owners, at the time of patent filing/copyright. For instance, instead of having to legally defend a medical patent for 20 years and overcharge hospitals/distributors during that time, receive a discounted cash flow equal to the approximate amount of value that would be forgone by pricing the innovation at competitive prices.

Of course this system isn't foolproof, and would be subject to tremendous "gaming" from patent holders and regulators, but innovators could reap the rewards of their innovative research without having to deal with pricing their products out of reach for some individuals who can't afford the price.

Again, it isn't foolproof. But there exists a "most efficient" means of balancing the risk/reward of innovation that lies somewhere between "IP rights should be forever" and "No IP at all."

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#45
post #34

I think we'd all be better off if basically everything was open source, by way of eliminating intellectual property protections provided by governments. As an alternate solution, those of us with engineering skills can work to create an open source economy with open source factories, computers, and products. This would never be a problem nor would it be likely to happen if genuinely competitive options existed for fa…

"Everything open source" would take away the incentive for people to create essentially all media professionally: software, music, TVs/movies, podcasts, journalism, and more. Many industries would be destroyed if they didn't have the right to sell their creations (if anyone could copy them and give them away). I personally enjoy the media created by many organizations such as NPR, which made the article we're reading…

"Companies like Microsoft would vanish"

Heaven forbid! :-D

I go around telling people what I think of copyright all the time, and this argument is one that I hear a lot.

But I don't buy it. The body of open source content available today is proof that your argument is at the very least incomplete. Plenty of people do give their time away for free to make better things available to people without monetary benefit.

A key to my argument is as follows: people who give away their work tend to be on the wealthier end of the spectrum with some ability to give their time away - a single mother of four who works 60 hours a week probably isn't submitting pull requests in her spare time.

So then you say I have a flaw - only wealthy people can contribute to a world without IP laws. But again I disagree. In the world without IP laws, I believe deeply that the wealth we already have would be more evenly distributed, and the floor of minimum wealth would be much higher. I think in a world without IP laws, so many people would be so much wealthier that they could afford to voluntarily support those who still cannot support themselves.

I should also point out that there's absolutely still an incentive to create things even without IP protection, so I disagree with your argument on its face. Certainly there is a greater incentive to create when creators can legally bar others from selling their works, but that does not mean the incentive without IP laws is zero. To the contrary, innovators maintain first mover advantage and are free to build brand awareness. I'd rather buy something from a creator than a copycat, since the copycat is more likely to cut corners that materially impact the quality of the offering.

On balance I believe we would see MORE wealth and more innovation without IP laws, and while I may be wrong I think it's important to question the conventional wisdom that IP laws help innovation. I think in many ways they harm it.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#46
post #30

I think we'd all be better off if basically everything was open source, by way of eliminating intellectual property protections provided by governments. As an alternate solution, those of us with engineering skills can work to create an open source economy with open source factories, computers, and products. This would never be a problem nor would it be likely to happen if genuinely competitive options existed for fa…

That will just lead to the Chinesium-ization of all things. No real innovation will occur...just churning out commodity designs in the Far East.

You're making a prediction without stating your reasoning.

What makes you think this?

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#47
I'm starting to wonder if these articles are driven by a PR firm paid by John Deere's competition. They're always about John Deere and only John Deere. Aside from the Motherboard / Vice article, they never provide any specifics about the maintenance or repair operations that farms are prevented from doing on their own.

With the Vice article, 2 of the 3 things they mention are modifying the tractors to operate in ways the manufacturer did not intend which could result in damage.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#48

I think we'd all be better off if basically everything was open source, by way of eliminating intellectual property protections provided by governments. As an alternate solution, those of us with engineering skills can work to create an open source economy with open source factories, computers, and products. This would never be a problem nor would it be likely to happen if genuinely competitive options existed for fa…

Yes, people seriously underestimate the damage done by carrying over the near-absolute monopolies granted by copyright, which were originally intended for superfluous creative works. A good compromise may be that software is only eligible for legal protections like copyright if it's source is registered with the Copyright Office, and then the scope of that copyright would limit the commercial resell for 10 years, but…

Just a thought experiment: what if copyright could only be assigned to individuals and not companies?

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#49

I think we'd all be better off if basically everything was open source, by way of eliminating intellectual property protections provided by governments. As an alternate solution, those of us with engineering skills can work to create an open source economy with open source factories, computers, and products. This would never be a problem nor would it be likely to happen if genuinely competitive options existed for fa…

The biggest concern I see with eliminating IP is that it effectively eliminates an incentive for innovation. That doesn't mean innovation halts completely, but if the system of compensation does not change, it can be reasonably expected that rates of innovation adjust according to the incentives available for innovators. What I would prefer is a discounted lump sum paid out to IP owners, at the time of patent filing/…

I hear this constantly but it doesn't ring true to me.

Look at the 3D printer inventors from the 1980's who rested on their laurels selling $30,000 3D printers until their patents expired and the open source community started producing them for under $1000. Ten years after the patents expired, you can get a 3D printer for $199 that genuinely rivals the quality of a $30,000 printer just 10 years ago.

There are all manner of incentives for innovation and profit is only one. But locking down ideas in this way prevents others from improving on ideas, and incentivizes one-time innovators to focus on legal battles rather than continued development.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#50

I wonder, is the a GPL tractor software project out there yet?

I don't know, but there is an open source tractor design:

http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/LifeTrac

Primitive but think of Linux when it was released.

It's part of the Global Village Construction Set, open source machines that could make up the technological basis for a civilization:

http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Global_Village_Constructio...

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