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New Adobe Flash 0day, have a nice weekend

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Re: New Adobe Flash 0day, have a nice weekend

#41
post #28

Yesterday I removed flash from my Mac Internet Plugins folder. I can't say I'm missing it. Nearly all website work, a lot of ads are gone. Strangely, html5/h.264 is often the fall back for flash, I really would wish they did that the other wise around.

That made me curious so I removed Flash from /Library/Internet\ Plug-Ins/ and rebooted. I'm unable to play video on either Vimeo or YouTube so I'll be sticking with Click to Flash for the moment.

Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/html5

Vimeo: Right below the description, see: http://imgur.com/yuf4R

Obviously not an automatic fallback but I guess that's because it is still in 'beta'.

Youtube videos with ads won't work, or embedded ones (I think the same goes for embedded vimeo vids)

Re: New Adobe Flash 0day, have a nice weekend

#42
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That made me curious so I removed Flash from /Library/Internet\ Plug-Ins/ and rebooted. I'm unable to play video on either Vimeo or YouTube so I'll be sticking with Click to Flash for the moment.

Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/html5 Vimeo: Right below the description, see: http://imgur.com/yuf4R Obviously not an automatic fallback but I guess that's because it is still in 'beta'. Youtube videos with ads won't work, or embedded ones (I think the same goes for embedded vimeo vids)

Thanks for the links — I'd just expected the sites to fallback. For anyone else who's tempted to try this out, unless I missed it there is also no 'Switch to HTML5 player' link for channels on Vimeo.

Re: New Adobe Flash 0day, have a nice weekend

#43
post #30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish your comment was a fact. But Apple is a business and they have business interests when it comes to these outsider platforms. My understanding is that Apple doesnt allow Java ,Silverlight , Qt or any of those, because these platforms could gradually in-signify the need for a walled garden of apps. App Store is a real cash cow with a lot of potential and Apple clearly doesnt want to purge it off(and that is a go…

I understand the business move, but I never understood the "cash cow" reasoning. Most apps appear to be in the $2.99 to $.99 range. The 60 cents Apple gains from a $1.99 app barely covers credit card fees (for multiple currencies), bandwidth fees, bank fees to send money to developer, and paying salaries for all those app reviewers. Occam's Razor suggests that they want to build "only the best apps" so the way to do…

> The 60 cents Apple gains from a $1.99 app barely covers credit card fees (for multiple currencies), bandwidth fees, bank fees to send money to developer, and paying salaries for all those app reviewers.

What's your source for this?

Re: New Adobe Flash 0day, have a nice weekend

#44
post #2

Shouldn't a fix come out with that announcement? If they're offering a temporary fix, shouldn't they at least push that temp fix as an update, and fully update the issue later? This leaves the non-technically inclined out in the cold, and informs those who may not know of the exploit of its existence. Just something as simple as removing authplay.dll for Acrobat and Reader, and even upgrading the current version of F…

An inadequately-tested update is going to carry some risk of causing its own harm. If this Flash update is indeed not-ready-for-prime-time (heck, they may even know of specific issues) then it becomes irresponsible to push it out to all users. You've essentially traded a known problem for an unknown problem, as well as complicated the process by which the original problem is resolved.

Re: New Adobe Flash 0day, have a nice weekend

#45
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Re: New Adobe Flash 0day, have a nice weekend

#46
post #2

Shouldn't a fix come out with that announcement? If they're offering a temporary fix, shouldn't they at least push that temp fix as an update, and fully update the issue later? This leaves the non-technically inclined out in the cold, and informs those who may not know of the exploit of its existence. Just something as simple as removing authplay.dll for Acrobat and Reader, and even upgrading the current version of F…

It was a good reminder for me to disable Flash and PDF (and 30 other plugins) in Chrome. I use Chrome for almost all my browsing, but if I need Flash or something else on a specific site, I can open it in IE or Firefox.

Maybe someday Chrome will have a plugin "whitelist" for sites so I can only allow Flash on the sites I want to.

Re: New Adobe Flash 0day, have a nice weekend

#47
post #46
post #2

Shouldn't a fix come out with that announcement? If they're offering a temporary fix, shouldn't they at least push that temp fix as an update, and fully update the issue later? This leaves the non-technically inclined out in the cold, and informs those who may not know of the exploit of its existence. Just something as simple as removing authplay.dll for Acrobat and Reader, and even upgrading the current version of F…

It was a good reminder for me to disable Flash and PDF (and 30 other plugins) in Chrome. I use Chrome for almost all my browsing, but if I need Flash or something else on a specific site, I can open it in IE or Firefox. Maybe someday Chrome will have a plugin "whitelist" for sites so I can only allow Flash on the sites I want to.

That's really weird. I use firefox with NoScript for all my browsing, and if I need Flash or something I fire up Chrome.

Of course, this is on desktop Ubuntu. On my Droid I guess I just use Chrome...

Re: New Adobe Flash 0day, have a nice weekend

#48
post #19
post #7

and? http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/19/charlie-miller-to-reveal-...

I'm not quite sure what the relevancy of this is, unless you're actually such a rabid Apple hater that you automatically see any mention of Adobe flaws as an argument for Apple or somesuch.

Lots of software has security problems. It's pretty rare that any of them show up on the front page of HN. They just tend to blend into background noise as "not interesting" unless it's particularly interesting to the community for some reason. Given that one of Job's major points for not allowing Flash on iDevices was the security of the platform, the only conclusion one can draw for having a security notice show up on the front page is that there are a lot of Adobe haters out there.

Within one sentence (and with absolutely no commentary or statements from me in any way) you successfully made the connection between Adobe and Apple. This connection is obvious and I shouldn't really have to explain it -- in other words, it's painfully obvious why a security bulletin for Flash has shown up on the front page of HN and why I've never seen one for an Apple product despite fairly wide ranging security concerns in the community about Apple products.

Here's Jobs on the topic.

https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

"Symantec recently highlighted Flash for having one of the worst security records in 2009. We also know first hand that Flash is the number one reason Macs crash. We have been working with Adobe to fix these problems, but they have persisted for several years now. We don’t want to reduce the reliability and security of our iPhones, iPods and iPads by adding Flash."

Before Jobs explicitly banned Flash from the platform, the only thing I ever remember seeing on HN regarding flash was that it performed a bit poorly under Apple's operating systems because Apple wouldn't provide the necessary APIs that would allow Adobe to make it as performant as it is under Windows (and the occasional comment regarding the Linux port that like most software ported to Linux, it was a few generations behind the times). But these complaints are pretty much the same for lots of cross platform software and generally blended into the background noise, even canvas runs poorly on most systems! One thing I don't ever recall hearing about on HN was any commentary about Flash as insecure. That all changed with "Thoughts on Flash".

Before Thoughts on Flash, I bet there was never an Adobe Flash related security posting on the front page of HN. Yet Flash has had its share of security issues, the same as anything. Which is what my link was meant to demonstrate.

In other words, it's essentially a non-issue.

My point in posting one of a million links regarding Apple security problems is that Apple is also not free from issues with its platform. Yet these never make it to the front page of HN. More importantly, Apple is rather poor at self-reporting security problems, yet here we are bashing Adobe for doing the responsible thing and reporting the problem themselves.

It's actually an interesting example of social dynamics, demonstrating how people will follow the direction a chosen leader and orient their opinions regarding their own safety to be in line with what that leader says rather than an objective review of the actual situation. People often follow leaders as a proxy for doing their own thinking. I've just demonstrated why this is dangerous. Jobs doesn't want to bring attention to the security issues of his own platforms and has tried, successfully, to direct natural concerns for that to somebody else. It's a masterful piece of political manipulation. Most politicians would sell a limb to have this kind of mind share.

My link provided no commentary, no judgment, no counter-statements, no Apple bashing or Apple praise, in fact no statements of any kind.

Yet the fact that that link is providing uncomfortable information contrary to that provided by Jobs has caused it to be annihilated by downvotes (meta-comment: pg has obviously changed something in the karma scoring because it only shows -4, but my account is down -9 since yesterday and that's the only change I can find, either the karma math is screwy, or he's experimenting with some social engineering of his own and counting all downvotes but only showing -4 no matter what. I find this interesting since, if that were true, people have continued to downvote a link to unwanted counter information even though it already stands at -4).

I actually cannot find a statement from Jobs regarding platform security other than "Thoughts on Flash". Even in response to things like this http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1495591/security-ex.... Considering that Jobs is among the more chatty CEOs of a major corporation, this omission is rather perplexing. This leads to the obvious conclusion that Jobs has taken the opportunity to call out Flash security as a red herring, to turn our attention away from the problems on his own platform. And, as is demonstrated here by bashing on Adobe for flash security, bashing on people who point out apple security, people have bought his play -- hook, line and sinker.

I provoked the response I expected to get based on the history of how the dynamics of the situations has occurred. A swarm of downvotes for a link regarding Apple security problems flies directly in the face of what Jobs has said. It's a shame he had to put "Thoughts on Flash" out there. I found his comments on Flash at D8 far more coherent and sensible and without the obvious manipulative language he used in "Thoughts". What I find a shame is how easily and gullible people who follow Jobs have been regarding the entire issue -- people who are otherwise very smart and very bright.

edit I'm actually down -10 on my karma now. I guess pg does count all downvotes even if -4 is all that's displayed.

edit 2 this poor comment was similarly in negative territory as well, further reinforcing my point. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1406477

Re: New Adobe Flash 0day, have a nice weekend

#49
post #46
post #2

Shouldn't a fix come out with that announcement? If they're offering a temporary fix, shouldn't they at least push that temp fix as an update, and fully update the issue later? This leaves the non-technically inclined out in the cold, and informs those who may not know of the exploit of its existence. Just something as simple as removing authplay.dll for Acrobat and Reader, and even upgrading the current version of F…

It was a good reminder for me to disable Flash and PDF (and 30 other plugins) in Chrome. I use Chrome for almost all my browsing, but if I need Flash or something else on a specific site, I can open it in IE or Firefox. Maybe someday Chrome will have a plugin "whitelist" for sites so I can only allow Flash on the sites I want to.

Flashblock? https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/gofhjkjmkpinhpoi...

Re: New Adobe Flash 0day, have a nice weekend

#50
post #25

Perfect headline. It straddles the ambiguity between the two possible meanings: the sarcastic one, about IT personnel scrambling to put fixes in place over their 'nice' weekend, and the non-sarcastic one, addressed to hackers who could have some fun with this. In any case, Adobe, the timing has exactly the level of thoughtfulness we have come to expect from the Flash team. The only way you could have done more damage…

It is unlikely that anybody at Adobe controlled the timing of this release.
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