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Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

gizmodo.co.uk

41–50 of 154 posts

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#41
post #10

I'm one of the soon-to-be-expat Brits. Like Herr Pierzina, I'm also troubled by the IP Act. Moving is really not fun, but move I must: the IP Act is unconscionable in many parts, and Brexit takes away one of the few powers that could fight those parts. Two Home Secretaries in a row that just don't get encryption. My time is split between finishing my novel, learning German, and trying to catch up on tech that came ou…

The home secretaries is only part of it, in his reign David Cameron also spoke of the state not allowing messages it cannot read.

I read the news some days and all you can do is laugh.

That and plan my ambush on question time...

"Theresa! Could you share with us the dates and times you masturbated over the last five years? You've got nothing to hide"

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, once that's done as far as I understand it there is no way back The UK has 2 year to retract as article 50 allows that. 2 years is a long period in UK politics during which a vote of no-confidence could happen, calling for new elections that could retract article 50. Even if the 2 years pass, the EU already said that they would fast track the UK back in if a future government wants to come back. This is not o…

I don't think you are correct, or at least, the UK supreme court thinks that you are not correct: https://www.businessinsider.nl/uk-supreme-court-article-50-n...

It's possible they could extend negotiations. As long as the EU and UK parliaments both agree to do that, they can do whatever they like, as they can just change the law to support whatever they're trying to do.

Whether there will be enough public support to do that is another matter entirely. Perhaps there will be another general election or referendum which will muddy the waters.

If the last year has taught us anything, it's that the world is a very uncertain place right now, and all predictions are worthless.

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#43
post #4

A few anecdotes doesn't count as evidence. I voted for Remain, and hope very much that the Brexit process collapses and we end up staying in the EU. But I also don't want to spend the next 2 years being drip-fed poor quality articles about how we're going to hell in a handbasket.

The paragraph after the heading 'Why This Matters' sort of addresses the fact that it is anecdotal and how it might still have significance.

Personally I find the article does read a bit like scaremongering propaganda.

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#44
post #4

A few anecdotes doesn't count as evidence. I voted for Remain, and hope very much that the Brexit process collapses and we end up staying in the EU. But I also don't want to spend the next 2 years being drip-fed poor quality articles about how we're going to hell in a handbasket.

If you want data not anecdotes, then it's early days but here you go: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurse...

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#45
post #6

Foolish and premature. The UK government has not expressed any intention to restrict skilled immigration in industries facing skills shortages. It is totally unrestricted immigration of low-skilled individuals that the government (and it's fair to say the British population) are opposed to.

It is totally unrestricted immigration of low-skilled individuals that the government (and it's fair to say the British population) are opposed to. This may be the case. Brexit is the dumbest solution to that particular problem though.

Had any other solutions been made available, Brexit probably wouldn't be happening.

The EU chose to not make solutions available and stuck it into a "take it or leave it" basket. It seems to me to be a recurring pattern with over-centralized government that they start using more and more of their power this way; you can see it in the US now too, for instance in the way the Trump administration is continuing to saber rattle about either enforcing immigration laws as they choose or cutting off as much Federal funding as they can from cities and states that refuse to comply with their interpretation. It's a very tempting way to exert power, but it makes the system increasingly fragile as you do it, because you eventually get to the point where people start seriously considering and/or triggering the "leave it" option (see also Calexit, for instance; still not very serious but certainly more serious now than it was a year ago).

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#46
post #22

It has begun. One of our best developers is moving back to Poland. I can't say I blame him.

Surely this is a victory for Poland?

That depends, are there companies in Poland that can make good use of his specific skills? You cannot ignore the effects of matching people with the jobs where they are most productive. People moving between countries is not a zero sum game.

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#47

It's at least somewhat ironic, though, that the first person profiled in the article is from Norway, as Norway has always rejected EU membership. If you're upset about Britain leaving the EU, "taking your talents back to Norway" makes it sound like EU membership isn't exactly top of your concerns.

> as Norway has always rejected EU membership

But Norway is in the European Economic Area, meaning the (all or nothing) agreement for "the free movement of persons, goods, services and capital within the European Single Market".

if keeping those freedoms are your concern, then you have every right to prefer Norway over England.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#48
After Brexit everyone in Zurich thought that all FinTech startups would move from London to Frankfurt or maybe Zurich, since Switzerland has tight relationships with the EU.

This did not seem to happen.

Also, I haven't gotten more UK people asking me for tech jobs in Zurich compared to before Brexit. (I run a tech recruiting agency; happy to help people who want to move to Switzerland, you finde the recently released job-list here: https://coderfit.catsone.com/careers/ - job-descriptions are still WIP, please bear with us)

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#49
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you are correct, or at least, the UK supreme court thinks that you are not correct: https://www.businessinsider.nl/uk-supreme-court-article-50-n...

It's possible they could extend negotiations. As long as the EU and UK parliaments both agree to do that, they can do whatever they like, as they can just change the law to support whatever they're trying to do. Whether there will be enough public support to do that is another matter entirely. Perhaps there will be another general election or referendum which will muddy the waters. If the last year has taught us anyt…

Well, that may be how the UK sees it but I can pretty much guarantee that that is not how the rest of the EU will see things. The automatic end to the negotiations and finalization after two years is currently the law, it would probably be best to go on the assumption that that's exactly how it will play out. There is some sense on the UK side that the UK will come out of the negotiations in a better position than what they have right now in the EU, but the European side is adamant that no matter what the UK will not come out of this better than when they were a part of the EU, and this makes good sense (otherwise, why would any nation remain part of the bloc).

Also, the UK has just handed the EU all their strong cards in the negotiations, and if the Scots exit the union that position will get weaker still.

Keep in mind that the exceptional situation the UK has (had?) in the EU was always an annoyance to other member states but was tolerated in order to keep the UK in the EU. If the UK falls apart and Scotland re-joins (or even remains) then the UK negotiation position with respect to those exceptions has evaporated, something that would definitely be appreciated in other EU countries.

Other general elections of referenda will not muddy the waters from an EU perspective, the deed is done, any regret will now take the form of a re-application, which will likely include the UK giving up their own currency, becoming a part of the Schengen area and getting rid of all the exceptions that were made for the UK.

This was a dumb move if there ever was one, such major decisions should require a supermajority, not a simple majority and May did a huge dis-service to the UK just now. But by the time the chickens come home to roost she'll be enjoying her pension sitting under banner reading 'I gave the people of England what they asked for, not what they needed'.

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, once that's done as far as I understand it there is no way back, agreement or not, the clock ticks and after 2 years are up the separation is a fact. If people are hoping for a collapse of the Brexit after that point they are delusional, the only way this would reverse after that is by a new application, and I really don't see that ending up with the UK being in a better position after such a process than they…

> Well, once that's done as far as I understand it there is no way back The UK has 2 year to retract as article 50 allows that. 2 years is a long period in UK politics during which a vote of no-confidence could happen, calling for new elections that could retract article 50. Even if the 2 years pass, the EU already said that they would fast track the UK back in if a future government wants to come back. This is not o…

They'll only let us back in the club if they choose to from now on [1].

Basically, they've left the door open for us to vote in a pro-EU party in the next general election and abandon the whole thing. That's why they won't agree a trade deal in the next 2 years.

They're hoping, like me, that things will get sufficiently bad in the next 2 years the public gives a mandate to a pro-EU party, and the whole sorry mess can be averted, and then we can try Johnson, Farage and the other scumbag liars for treason.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/first-eu-re...

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