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Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

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Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#41

Post by spyspy »

laurent123456 wrote: post #33
jpeg_hero wrote: post #2

Tesla shorts can't get a break. First a smooth $1B+ capital raise without a stock hiccup and now this.

I didn't short the stock but I can understand why someone would. They are expected to generate over 90% of their value after 2020 [0]. There's the expectation that Elon Musk will definitely deliver, that Tesla market share will not be eaten up by other carmakers when they seriously start releasing electric vehicles. The expectation that electric and not another form of energy, such as hydrogen, will dominate, etc. Th…

> when they seriously start releasing electric vehicles

They've been "serious" for a long time. Chevy has been selling the Volt since 2010. If they were going to muscle out Tesla they would have done it by now. And it's not just about technology. Tesla has the customer reputation that companies like GM will never have again.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#42

Post by jonknee »

bredren wrote: post #27
jonknee wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or to confuse Tesla with a tech company.

What kind of company would you call it?

Every company these days is a tech company in some respects, but I don't think Tesla fits the bill in the general sense. Tesla is a green energy manufacturing company.

The only reason I think this matters is their finances are a lot different than a tech company. You are correct that Tesla is currently priced like a tech company though, so maybe I'm way off!

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#43

Post by prolly_a_moron »

davedx wrote: post #26
prolly_a_moron wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stock has been stagnant for a long time, and it's still off its high. Shorts have done fine. What's amazing are the longs seeing capital raises at mediocre terms as a wide open positive.

Who says the capital raise is a 'wide open positive'? As someone long TSLA I'm not ecstatic. But short of selling my stock, how else can I signal?

>Who says the capital raise is a 'wide open positive'?

The guy at the top of this thread who said "Shorts can't buy a break".

It's at least arguable that these sorts of capital raises are exactly what the shorts are looking for.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#44

Post by jonknee »

reilly3000 wrote: post #38
sah2ed wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A battery/renewable energy company.

I think the key distinction is hard costs. Tech companies have server costs. Tesla has manufacturing and contractor expenses.

Exactly. Tesla is a tech company like GE is a tech company. It's modern manufacturing.

(This only matters for valuation sake, a classic tech play can achieve profit margins far higher than a manufacturing firm.)

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#45

Post by Cerium »

jonknee wrote: post #34
netule wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They changed their name this year from Tesla Motors to Tesla Inc. to indicate a wider focus on technologies, not just cars (solar panels, batteries). How do they not qualify as a tech company?

They changed their name because they bought Elon's solar company (which was also not a tech company).

I'm curious about what you would consider a tech company.

For me a tech company is any company that uses the development of technology as a competitive advantage. Solar is not, major solar companies are not developing innovative technology. Tesla is, they do not have an advantage in scale or low prices, but have advantage in how their vehicles function.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#46

Post by Robotbeat »

spyspy wrote: post #41
laurent123456 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't short the stock but I can understand why someone would. They are expected to generate over 90% of their value after 2020 [0]. There's the expectation that Elon Musk will definitely deliver, that Tesla market share will not be eaten up by other carmakers when they seriously start releasing electric vehicles. The expectation that electric and not another form of energy, such as hydrogen, will dominate, etc. Th…

> when they seriously start releasing electric vehicles They've been "serious" for a long time. Chevy has been selling the Volt since 2010. If they were going to muscle out Tesla they would have done it by now. And it's not just about technology. Tesla has the customer reputation that companies like GM will never have again.

I own a Volt. Best car I've ever driven. GM doesn't care much for it. The only advertising they really do for it basically is trying to steal EV customers from Nissan's Leaf. Really dumb. And the dealers don't like it because 1) they don't know how to service them and especially 2) they almost never need servicing. If you run almost exclusively on electric, you only need like 4-5 oil changes in the entire life of the car. And the brakes last forever, too.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#47

Post by lanna »

jonknee wrote: post #14
Blackthorn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every budding short seller needs to, at some point in their career, learn the lesson of never shorting a growth tech stock.

Or to confuse Tesla with a tech company.

you seem to have a very narrow understanding of what technology means. computers are not the only "technology" in the world.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#48

Post by agreedasdfs4 »

jonknee wrote: post #34
netule wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They changed their name this year from Tesla Motors to Tesla Inc. to indicate a wider focus on technologies, not just cars (solar panels, batteries). How do they not qualify as a tech company?

They changed their name because they bought Elon's solar company (which was also not a tech company).

Don't feed the troll, folks.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#49

Post by ctdonath »

netule wrote: post #28
jonknee wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or to confuse Tesla with a tech company.

They changed their name this year from Tesla Motors to Tesla Inc. to indicate a wider focus on technologies, not just cars (solar panels, batteries). How do they not qualify as a tech company?

Knowing the company's core competency is very important. Stray from that, bad things happen. Is Tesla an electric car company? or an electric supply chain company? or what? If EV manufacturing, then focus on the car construction & experience, doing what's needed to power the thing (battery production, home solar services) but realize those can/should be ejected when better solutions arise. If a "tech" company, then we'll see Tesla stray into solar strip mining, long-distance delivery, app writing, and a host of other activities utterly unrelated to EVs - eventually dropping the EV part altogether.

Apple dropped the "Computer" from its name when moving firmly into a market (pocket supercomputers) which was a natural extension of its real core competency (high-UI/UX computers), but which (phones) were deeply perceived by the public as something profoundly different from "computers". Steve Jobs rediscovered the company's core competency, focused on it, and adjusted name & strategy accordingly.

Kodak thought its core competency was photochemical consumables. That was a pivot away from imaging, and into oblivion when the imaging technology shifted.

Smith Corona's competency was typewriters. We still need typewriters, but because SC tried to compete with computers (a spreadsheet on an electric typewriter is a non-sequitur), rather than being the best product for a shrinking yet enduring market, the biggest world brand vanished overnight.

If a company is going to pivot (which a name change absolutely signifies), then it better pivot around its core competency. Tesla's "tech" need be absolutely about either electric cars (by which batteries and solar are incidental and expendable for more suitable power sourcing), or solar (by which the consuming device may be far different than just a car), or power storage (source and use of power being incidental). Tesla is only "tech" insofar as they're pushing the limits of technology for building & powering electric cars. Stick with the cars, with solar ONLY as a means to free their power sourcing (and extra powering one's home), and they'll do fine; self-identify as a "tech" company, and they'll die of confusion. Musk is smarter than that mistake.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#50

Post by vvanders »

Robotbeat wrote: post #46
spyspy wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when they seriously start releasing electric vehicles They've been "serious" for a long time. Chevy has been selling the Volt since 2010. If they were going to muscle out Tesla they would have done it by now. And it's not just about technology. Tesla has the customer reputation that companies like GM will never have again.

I own a Volt. Best car I've ever driven. GM doesn't care much for it. The only advertising they really do for it basically is trying to steal EV customers from Nissan's Leaf. Really dumb. And the dealers don't like it because 1) they don't know how to service them and especially 2) they almost never need servicing. If you run almost exclusively on electric, you only need like 4-5 oil changes in the entire life of the…

Yup, which is why any entrenched player is going to have to both build an incredible car and fight against their dealerships to sell it.
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