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Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

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Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#41

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #39
SiVal wrote: post #14

I'm surprised to see "platforms" as Win: 41%, Desktop Linux: 33%, Mac: 18.4%. Presumably this question was about the machine you use to develop software on. The reason I'm surprised has nothing to do with any advocacy. It's just that whenever I look around at a non-Apple dev conference in the US (Web, for example), it looks as though fewer than 1/5 of the machines are NON-Macs, while the answer to the question above…

I always get the impression that SO is populated mainly by Enterprise devs using Windows. Edit for spelling.

The founders were very much Windows guys. Their podcast which essentially developed SO in public was very Windows-focussed. Although it's not the case for me personally, I suspect their audience skewed to Windows, these were the early users of the site, and they helped drive its direction.

Although SO now has a much wider audience, the more engaged, longer-term members are more likely to fill out this survey.

Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#42

Post by ljw1001 »

I found it fascinating that Smalltalk was #2 as most loved language in spite of its minimal use. Many of the ideas developed for Smalltalk are now commonplace, so I'm guessing that it's the careful integration of those ideas that makes it special.

It is my favorite language, btw. :)

Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#43

Post by collyw »

provemewrong wrote: post #10

Some observations. Wouldn't have thought of built-in help as a popular (47.1%) way of teaching yourself. Oracle usage only 16.5%, but I guess it makes sense considering the web developer proportion. CoffeeScript as the third most dreaded language, behind only two instances of Visual Basic. But reading the definition of "dreaded" in makes more sense. Sharepoint as the most dreaded platform, ha ha, no surprise there. C…

Maybe that goes part of the way towards explaining the higher salaries. If all the jobs are in the US and jobs there usually pay more.

Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#44

Post by mbel »

k__ wrote: post #8
markatkinson wrote: post #3

It is weird being a "desktop application" and mobile developer and knowing that 70% of developers do something that I am completely unfamiliar with. Web development to me feels like the Boneyard from the Lion King. This shadow land that I am too terrified to enter into, and I have no idea why I feel this way. It also bugs me like it might be a huge shortcoming at some point in my life that I have no grasp of it.

With me it's the other way around. I can do almost anything I need with Web tech. Desktop or even native mobile development seems to be like going back to the last century. I'm doing a native mobile project next month, and looking at the stuff a iOS dev needs to get going is horrible.

> Desktop or even native mobile development seems to be like going back to the last century.

The funny thing is that looking from the opposite perspective I feel the same. The web development looks like going back to beginnings of programming and reinventing everything again in the browser. You know, like when you read about 'tree shaking' being cutting edge technology in JavaScript land, then look at definition to realize that it's just dead code elimination that has been done by linkers & compilers for ages.

Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#45

Post by oblio »

SiVal wrote: post #14

I'm surprised to see "platforms" as Win: 41%, Desktop Linux: 33%, Mac: 18.4%. Presumably this question was about the machine you use to develop software on. The reason I'm surprised has nothing to do with any advocacy. It's just that whenever I look around at a non-Apple dev conference in the US (Web, for example), it looks as though fewer than 1/5 of the machines are NON-Macs, while the answer to the question above…

> It's just that whenever I look around at a non-Apple dev conference

Most devs don't attend dev conferences.

Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#46

Post by swarmerab »

banterfoil wrote: post #35

Students' Expected Salaries was the most surprising section for me. As a US soon to be grad, those numbers seemed surprisingly low. Perhaps the numbers are a lot less outside the US? I don't even think I could find a dev position that pays $30,000.

You do realize that there are developers in poor/developing countries, right? $500/month is considered a decent salary for junior devs where I'm from.

Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#47

Post by raarts »

yulaow wrote: post #19
SiVal wrote: post #14

I'm surprised to see "platforms" as Win: 41%, Desktop Linux: 33%, Mac: 18.4%. Presumably this question was about the machine you use to develop software on. The reason I'm surprised has nothing to do with any advocacy. It's just that whenever I look around at a non-Apple dev conference in the US (Web, for example), it looks as though fewer than 1/5 of the machines are NON-Macs, while the answer to the question above…

Outside of US, very few people use macs compared to you. Here in euw even in a CS course, engineering class in a top university or hackathon in a big startup incubator I can see like 1 macbook every 30 standard notebooks. Reason is simple: they are very overpriced for ours salaries (and I am in a first world country, I think their costs are prohibitive in places like India/Cina/etc) and - personal reason - as a webde…

Apple pretty much dominates the startup scene in the NL as far as I can tell.

Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#48

Post by oblio »

provemewrong wrote: post #10

Some observations. Wouldn't have thought of built-in help as a popular (47.1%) way of teaching yourself. Oracle usage only 16.5%, but I guess it makes sense considering the web developer proportion. CoffeeScript as the third most dreaded language, behind only two instances of Visual Basic. But reading the definition of "dreaded" in makes more sense. Sharepoint as the most dreaded platform, ha ha, no surprise there. C…

> Oracle usage only 16.5%, but I guess it makes sense considering the web developer proportion.

At the end of the day, Oracle is expensive. Web or not.

Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#49

Post by oblio »

banterfoil wrote: post #35

Students' Expected Salaries was the most surprising section for me. As a US soon to be grad, those numbers seemed surprisingly low. Perhaps the numbers are a lot less outside the US? I don't even think I could find a dev position that pays $30,000.

In Western Europe a senior dev makes less than 100k. A regular dev makes about 60k. In Eastern Europe a regular dev makes about 30-40k.

Re: Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results 2017

#50

Post by drusepth »

SiVal wrote: post #14

I'm surprised to see "platforms" as Win: 41%, Desktop Linux: 33%, Mac: 18.4%. Presumably this question was about the machine you use to develop software on. The reason I'm surprised has nothing to do with any advocacy. It's just that whenever I look around at a non-Apple dev conference in the US (Web, for example), it looks as though fewer than 1/5 of the machines are NON-Macs, while the answer to the question above…

> whenever I look around at a non-Apple dev conference

I think you're seeing selection bias here. The devs that attend conferences are a very, very small sliver of the total population, and the price of attending a conference (not only the ticket, but travel and PTO necessary to attend) also overlaps heavily with the more "well-off" devs, which probably have a higher percentage of Mac usage.

FWIW: I've had a personal Macbook (for two years in college) and a work Macbook (when necessary), and in both cases I only ran linux on them.

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