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H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

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Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#41

Post by John23832 »

M_Grey wrote: post #29
John23832 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's strawman, IG Farben was a company in Nazi Germany, which had different laws and different rights. If you want a better example, yes, Haliburton, GSK, and Koch, all have the right to lobby in their best interests (at least in the US).

...And Enron, and Goldman, and all of the companies that tanked us in 2008. Right? Where is this right spelled out exactly, except in the fiction that corporations are people without the responsibilities?

(Even though I disagree with it) Many courts interpretations of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC

Lobbying is speech. You can't just censor people you disagree with. That's not the basis of our democratic society. The price of being able to speak what you think is good, is having to hear what you think is bad.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#42

Post by cheriot »

John23832 wrote: post #19
mikeash wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely disagree. It's absolutely wrong for a business to lobby for their interests when it harms others. This is little different from dumping toxic waste into the local reservoir. That would be wrong even if it were legal. Obviously, a lot of business don't really care about right and wrong, and so they'll still do it. But we can condemn it.

I never said we can't condemn the behavior of businesses. The prime objective for a business is to make money. All the ethics, right/wrongs, etc are things that we expect from the people who run those businesses. But the business is there to make money. It is up to the people in charge of making choices for society to make the right choices. It's not the responsibility of the business. They have every right to lobby…

"The prime objective for a business is to make money."

A business is a way for people to organize and collaborate and it does not absolve those people of their moral and ethical obligations. Individuals are expected to prioritize family, community, country, religion, etc. We need to stop giving people a free pass just because they hide behind articles of incorporation.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#43

Post by silveira »

atonse wrote: post #24

Could we not start a non-profit that builds software as good as H&R block and allows people to file their own taxes?

There are more than one change per day in the tax code [1]. This implies that at least every day, a tax specialist would need to evaluate, describe requirements, a developer would need to translate that into code, including testing, regression test, etc. The code base also only increases, which makes it increasingly difficult to change if not designed carefully. It's technically feasible, but such endeavor would require a substantial effort. This non-profit would need a lot of donations to support that.

1. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/13/us-tax-code-has-cha...

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#45

Post by maxerickson »

John23832 wrote: post #41
M_Grey wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...And Enron, and Goldman, and all of the companies that tanked us in 2008. Right? Where is this right spelled out exactly, except in the fiction that corporations are people without the responsibilities?

(Even though I disagree with it) Many courts interpretations of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC Lobbying is speech. You can't just censor people you disagree with. That's not the basis of our democratic society. The price of being able to speak what you think is good, is having to hear what you think is bad.

I think most of this thread is explained by people not realizing you were making a banal first amendment argument.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#46

Post by jakelazaroff »

senior_james wrote: post #40

The government would actually love this. Most people are ignorant of tax laws and would just sign a piece of paper to get all of their taxes done. It would be an instant pay raise because most people would never even know if they could write something off. It would also allow them to easily remove the ability to write anything off, without too many people complaining. What many people don't like to talk about is that…

It's not like you couldn't still go to Intuit or H&R Block if you didn't trust the IRS. There's literally no downside to the government providing this service.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#47

Post by zhte415 »

silveira wrote: post #43
atonse wrote: post #24

Could we not start a non-profit that builds software as good as H&R block and allows people to file their own taxes?

There are more than one change per day in the tax code [1]. This implies that at least every day, a tax specialist would need to evaluate, describe requirements, a developer would need to translate that into code, including testing, regression test, etc. The code base also only increases, which makes it increasingly difficult to change if not designed carefully. It's technically feasible, but such endeavor would requ…

Class action.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#48

Post by John23832 »

cheriot wrote: post #42
John23832 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said we can't condemn the behavior of businesses. The prime objective for a business is to make money. All the ethics, right/wrongs, etc are things that we expect from the people who run those businesses. But the business is there to make money. It is up to the people in charge of making choices for society to make the right choices. It's not the responsibility of the business. They have every right to lobby…

"The prime objective for a business is to make money." A business is a way for people to organize and collaborate and it does not absolve those people of their moral and ethical obligations. Individuals are expected to prioritize family, community, country, religion, etc. We need to stop giving people a free pass just because they hide behind articles of incorporation.

What are you going to do, put a business in jail?

Hold the people who have made you promises and then failed to follow through responsible. Aka, your politicians. They are your backstop. What makes Goldman, GSK, Haliburton, or any of the other shady, scummy businesses out there responsible to you? They are responsible to the law on the books.

Our politicians are supposed to prevent business from screwing our society. Stop giving them an out. They failed, time and time again.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#49

Post by bkohlmann »

While I am against Intuits efforts, what astounds me most is how LITTLE money is spent lobbying. A few million over a year is peanuts compared to the broader market opportunity. And the implication that Congresspeople are bought off by sums as low as "$32,000" since 2008 seems unlikely. Intuit and H&R may simply contribute to those they know already support their agenda.

Re: H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy

#50

Post by imgabe »

goda90 wrote: post #33
atonse wrote: post #24

Could we not start a non-profit that builds software as good as H&R block and allows people to file their own taxes?

Their response would be to lobby for a more complicated tax code so that competitor's struggle to keep up to date. It could become an arms race.

I'm as cynical as the next person, but seriously, how successful could they be approaching legislators with the idea "Make the tax code even more needlessly complicated to support our business"? Short of outright bribery I don't see any benefit to a politician for supporting something like that.

There are a lot of complications in the tax code because with 300 million people there are a lot of special cases to account for. Adding additional complexity just for the sake of complexity seems like a non-starter.

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