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Laying a trap for self-driving cars

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Re: Laying a trap for self-driving cars

#41
post #11
post #8

I still want to see a self-driving car in Minnesota in winter. Road markings, what road markings? For that matter where is the road?

The road markings will be clearly visible, of course, since there will be self-driving snowplows around 24/7.

As someone who grew up in the mountains, I can tell you that the plows (and tire chains) do a fantastic job of stripping all the road markings away.

Re: Laying a trap for self-driving cars

#42
post #12
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The road markings will be clearly visible, of course, since there will be self-driving snowplows around 24/7.

How are the road markings visible to the first snowplow?

Lots of other people talk about fancy GPS systems in this thread, but it's been done for far longer with much simpler, arguably more reliable technology: long poles/sticks either painted with bright high vis paint, or more recently, retroreflectors.

It reminds me a bit of the story about NASA and the gazillion dollar space pen, vs the soviet space agency and their pencils.

Re: Laying a trap for self-driving cars

#43
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are the road markings visible to the first snowplow?

Lots of other people talk about fancy GPS systems in this thread, but it's been done for far longer with much simpler, arguably more reliable technology: long poles/sticks either painted with bright high vis paint, or more recently, retroreflectors. It reminds me a bit of the story about NASA and the gazillion dollar space pen, vs the soviet space agency and their pencils.

Sure, why not a "gazillion" at this point:

> When the solution of providing astronauts with a ballpoint pen that would work under weightless conditions and extreme temperatures came about, though, it wasn’t because NASA had thrown hundreds of thousands of dollars (inflated to $12 billion in the latest iterations of this tale) in research and development money at the problem. The “space pen” that has since become famous through its use by astronauts was developed independently by Paul C. Fisher of the Fisher Pen Co., who spent his own money on the project and, once he perfected his AG-7 “Anti-Gravity” Space Pen, offered it to NASA.

Via http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp

Re: Laying a trap for self-driving cars

#45
post #32

This definitely seems like an idea created and propagated by people with no idea about how these systems work. The Cruise Automation/GM videos show the cars crossing lane markings when a truck is blocking traffic in their lane, so these systems are being built to realise that while traffic laws may say one thing, practice requires something different. Certainly entertaining though.

I'm not totally sure that it's correct to group the artist with people who think lazily about AI. If the artist was trying to literally suggest that this trap would work, then, yeah, that would be silly and misinformed. But I think he was just being cheeky and using this as an example of a rule outside of its context being rendered meaningless (which is explicitly declared to be the point of the work). That in itself is a worthwhile point in a deeper way (because your model always fails when you hit outliers you haven't trained for), and I kind of liked that the visual form was of a car-summoning ritual.

Or maybe the artist is just a lazy anti-AI person and I am giving him too much credit. But I wouldn't say it's a foregone conclusion.

Re: Laying a trap for self-driving cars

#46
post #41
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The road markings will be clearly visible, of course, since there will be self-driving snowplows around 24/7.

As someone who grew up in the mountains, I can tell you that the plows (and tire chains) do a fantastic job of stripping all the road markings away.

I see this in the valley too. Lane markings are more "lane suggestions" for about 8 months of the year. Abrasive sand for traction on the ice, metal plows scraping the pavement, tire chains, and good ol' erosion do a great job of removing the lines they finished putting down in August by December.

Re: Laying a trap for self-driving cars

#47
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of other people talk about fancy GPS systems in this thread, but it's been done for far longer with much simpler, arguably more reliable technology: long poles/sticks either painted with bright high vis paint, or more recently, retroreflectors. It reminds me a bit of the story about NASA and the gazillion dollar space pen, vs the soviet space agency and their pencils.

Sure, why not a "gazillion" at this point: > When the solution of providing astronauts with a ballpoint pen that would work under weightless conditions and extreme temperatures came about, though, it wasn’t because NASA had thrown hundreds of thousands of dollars (inflated to $12 billion in the latest iterations of this tale) in research and development money at the problem. The “space pen” that has since become famo…

The Soviets used the Fisher Space Pen, too. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-n...

Pencils have issues with electrical systems, waste, and flammability.

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