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Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

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Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#41

Post by leesalminen »

Gorbzel wrote: post #31
tpolm wrote: post #6

Opting out of multimeter scans: not even once

I've opted out every time I traveled prior to the introduction of (opt-in, non-frequent flyer based) Precheck, so 8-10 times per year from 2010-2014(?) and never had a notable issue. As the other child comment says, rights atrophy if you don't exercise them.

If you're traveling with someone you know, one trick to ending the pat down early is to try to embarrass the agent while in a sensitive area. My favorite is "you know, he's only doing this because his girlfriend dumped him and is lonely". ~50% of the time they stop immediately and say "you're good".

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#42

Post by semi-extrinsic »

jordigh wrote: post #16
epmaybe wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry you have to go through that. Also, what radiation machine are you referring to? The millimeter wave scanner?

Yes. Besides the uncertainty about the harmful effects of that radiation, there's also the issue of how they collect and pass around the naked images.

> uncertainty about the harmful effects of that radiation

Personally I don't think there is much there to be concerned about. We know these waves penetrate less than 1mm into your skin, and that the only way they can cause damage is by thermal effects. We know it's not ionizing radiation, not by a long shot. I believe getting a sunburn at the beach is far worse.

I think the privacy concerns, and the frequently low efficiacy/high-false-positive rate of these machines are far more cause for concern.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#43

Post by thr3290 »

> timestamp on the paper: 10:40. ..... It was 2:20PM

So this guy sets off the alarm (swab probably found traces of explosives ), has no paperwork in order (proof of work), and has to wait for 3 hours before it gets resolved.

Last time the HN crowd was enraged over someone who was questioned for 15 minutes...

I was detained overnight, and some of my friends were denied entry to US for bullshit reasons... It is like a different planet.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#44

Post by phkahler »

macspoofing wrote: post #37
jtchang wrote: post #17

It's sad how much flying has changed since 9/11. Younger individuals will never realize how much easier it was to get through security. I'm sad at how he was treated and it's something that needs to be changed. It's not like treating anyone badly is going to result in more information.

>It's sad how much flying has changed since 9/11. Sad but predictable in a world with a global movement of suicidal religious fanatics willing to murder thousands of people and cause billions in property damage. It is what is. I miss the old days too, but I wouldn't vote to water-down airport security. >I'm sad at how he was treated and it's something that needs to be changed. Does it? He refused the millimeter wave…

He didn't refuse the scanner, he was given a choice and when his choice was going to get complicated he could no longer switch back to the scanner. He did opt for the scanner on his new flight. But none of that is really relevant to how he was treated. Why deny him a glass of water?

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#45

Post by pfooti »

tpolm wrote: post #6

Opting out of multimeter scans: not even once

I opt out every time, or did before I got precheck (I know, irony). I never had anything remotely like this experience, and my shaving soap has set off the gas chromatograph machine twice. I still bring it with me when I travel (it doesn't always trigger the machine, but that's a different discussion about the pointlessness of a machine with a lousy false positive rate being used to test for something with a vanishingly small prior).

My secret? I'm an average looking White Male in the US. Nobody ever thinks _even for a second_ that I could be a threat. Last time my soap got me taken to secondary screening, TSA left me alone in the room with their walkie talkie charging station. With all my stuff. Unsupervised.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#46

Post by rokhayakebe »

I am Muslim and I've been "randomly" selected at airports before. My advice: smile and be nice as you should be with anyone. Granted you have every right to not comply, when you are being hostile it does not help you get out faster.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#47

Post by kefka »

macspoofing wrote: post #37
jtchang wrote: post #17

It's sad how much flying has changed since 9/11. Younger individuals will never realize how much easier it was to get through security. I'm sad at how he was treated and it's something that needs to be changed. It's not like treating anyone badly is going to result in more information.

>It's sad how much flying has changed since 9/11. Sad but predictable in a world with a global movement of suicidal religious fanatics willing to murder thousands of people and cause billions in property damage. It is what is. I miss the old days too, but I wouldn't vote to water-down airport security. >I'm sad at how he was treated and it's something that needs to be changed. Does it? He refused the millimeter wave…

> Sad but predictable in a world with a global movement of suicidal religious fanatics willing to murder thousands of people and cause billions in property damage. It is what is. I miss the old days too, but I wouldn't vote to water-down airport security.

Say, are you referring to the Extremist Moslems, or Extremist Christians?

Both have their fair share of "incidents". Perhaps you've never heard of the KKK? They're Protestant Christians.

>Does it? He refused the millimeter wave scan, got a pat-down, tested positive for an explosive or poison, and then refused further screening - what should happen at that point? Should he be cleared? Where did the TSA go wrong here?

That whole innocent until proven guilty in a court of law... It doesn't count for non-Christians, does it?

That's what this all really comes down to. Not while christians, eh?

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#48

Post by arjie »

For what it's worth, practically every brown guy I know goes through the rituals when interacting with US Gov officials. Shave, look as clean cut as possible, and don't stand out. So no opting out of the scanners, no joking at security or immigration, better have backup ID.

I'm not saying it's right that it's this way but it's safer. The officials are not very smart people but they have power, so you just give them what they want.

I'm not going to wage this war for liberty or whatever it is. I'm just going to go on vacation.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#49

Post by gech »

samsonradu wrote: post #22
tankenmate wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some middle eastern airlines have prayer rooms on their aircraft as well as indicators in the room so you know which direction Mecca is.

Etihad goes further and plays a short prayer before take-off. You can check where Mecca is at any time on your screen. Not sure where I have read it, nor can I confirm but I remember they also try to avoid scheduling flights during prayer hours (if possible)

The sacred texts don't indicate what is appropriate to do while flying in an airplane?

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#50

Post by whazor »

jordigh wrote: post #5

I have to fly today, from Canada to Europe. I probably shouldn't be reading stories like these before a flight, but I did, top to bottom, transfixed by the details. I hope I manage to make it through airport "security" without any problem. I'll smile, I'll cooperate. Hell, maybe I'll even step into the radiation machine for the first time in my life if I have to (I also always have opted out). I hate how scary this w…

Europe and Canada are friendlier than USA.
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