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Steve Jobs's thoughts on the Internet in 1996

wired.com

41–44 of 44 posts

Re: Steve Jobs's thoughts on the Internet in 1996

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was I voted down because y'all lack a sense of humor, or was it because you didn't read the article?

You can't get by on HN with little quips that don't really add to the conversation.

Well, your little quip adds indirectly to future conversations. Where does that put you?

Just kidding, now downvote please.

Re: Steve Jobs's thoughts on the Internet in 1996

#42
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, because it's controlled by a very small number of elites with no accountability. This is true of Britannica, but the difference is that Wikipedia editors have perversely managed to co-opt populist democratic rhetoric in order to justify what is effectively an oligarchy. The presence of the edit button on each page functions as an ideological mystification to c…

This is one of the more sober commentaries on the internet and power I've read in a long time.

It reads more like a conspiracy theory than anything to me. It is certainly long, which makes it look "sober", but what does that have to do with being accurate?

Re: Steve Jobs's thoughts on the Internet in 1996

#43
post #21

Very very good interview. So, Steve Jobs were, in 1996, 100% certain the Web Objects will be the future of web development. It didn't happen, and he failed. Do anybody care to think why he failed? I have a very "simpleton" theory. Just throw it out here: Steve Jobs can almost make anything work. He's smart, and he has resources. He can make a good washing machine if he want to. But I think that "anything" will have t…

While his enterprise software product may have failed, what he seems to mean by "web objects" is web service APIs, which have indeed become vastly more important since this interview took place. In fact, that was probably the most prescient thing he said.

I agree with you. I said he failed but his vision isn't wrong. He is as convinced about his vision as when he saw the GUI. In fact, what he saw in 1996 remains the same - web dev is still in the everything-custom age (stone age). Every new app is a reinvention of lots of wheels already made ...

What I am curious is that why he failed. My hunch is that he just isn't a fit for this project.

It sounds like you and I and Steve Jobs agree on this fundamental thing. Care to get together offline? I live in Sunnyvale Bay Area.

Re: Steve Jobs's thoughts on the Internet in 1996

#44
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, because it's controlled by a very small number of elites with no accountability. This is true of Britannica, but the difference is that Wikipedia editors have perversely managed to co-opt populist democratic rhetoric in order to justify what is effectively an oligarchy. The presence of the edit button on each page functions as an ideological mystification to c…

That's a really superficial critique of Wikipedia, and it doesn't appear to be supported by the facts. The fact is, if you go use the "edit" button right now and make a good-faith improvement, your edit is overwhelmingly likely to stand. The "oligarchy" you refer to consists of many hundreds of people, freely nominated from among all the site's users, elected by the votes of every Wikipedia user. If you've made just…

This reminds me of a story in Freud's The Interpretation of Dreams illustrating psychological denial. It's about a man who returns a borrowed kettle that had been broken to his neighbor. To explain the damage he says "It's not broken; when I borrowed it, it was already broken; I never borrowed it!" In other words, three mutually incompatible explanations for what happened to try to avoid the facts. Here, you say that Wikipedia is not an oligarchy; and also, it is an oligarchy, but it's justified. The claim against my argument is that it's both too superficial and also an elaborate conspiracy theory, a complicated mindfuck that defies logic. Are these arbitrary outbursts not evidence in themselves of a refusal to consider the facts?

This logic of "Democracy is great! But of course we have to have some standards..." has been used to conceal elite power for centuries. In the US, political participation was originally reserved for white, male property owners, because it was thought that the standard for voting is rationality, which women and lesser races don't have. The elites permit democracy, but they reserve the right to decide what the standards for participation should be. Who decides what "good-faith" means? This isn't conspiracy, it is ideological delusion: elites become corrupt because they're convinced of their own benevolence, that because they stand for Democracy and Decentralization (today's empty signifiers, replacing God, Nation), preserving their elite position is justified. It is definitely not because they cynically manipulate, pulling the strings behind the scenes while laughing at the deluded masses. It's a natural human tendency to see yourself as acting only for the greater good, and to adopt an ideology that explains why what's good for you is good for all.

As I mentioned before, my preferred solution to elite power is not some fantasy of "true democracy", which only ends up concealing real power. Nor do I think that elite control is necessarily a bad thing, only concealing elite power behind mask of democracy. Scientific knowledge is an obvious arena where we are best served by having an elite. But if they abuse their power, we should be ready with the (metaphorical) guillotine. In the case of Facebook, the real response is not a different, more decentralized system, but the guillotine of strong privacy regulations. Or government enforcement of net neutrality, and so on. The libertarian & anti-government leanings of the tech community is more evidence in favor of my argument. Is this not just another way to defend an oligarchy? I think many sincerely believe that this is the best arrangement, but avoiding the facts might cast some doubt on this.

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