Live data from Hacker News

Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

techcrunch.com

41–50 of 105 posts

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

did it come with the car or is it aftermarket?

The collision avoidance systems (I presume OP is speaking about) is aftermarket. That's a small part of Mobileye's business, but it is based on the same technology. BMWs and other high end cars have had Mobileye as OEM for a long time, but the company itself is a bit of a legacy company and not always run well (and is based in Jerusalem which is even more legacy) - but like many Israeli tech stories has great tech.

Thanks, I wasn't aware of Mobileye's aftermarket products. For the curious:

http://www.mobileye.com/en-uk/products/mobileye-5-series/

http://www.mobileye.com/en-uk/products/mobileye-6-series/

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#42
post #9

Intel has made acquisitions of almost $40 billion in the past couple of years. It will be interesting to see if they can make this money back as competition becomes more fierce in the PC and server markets because of AMD and Qualcomm.

They have 95%+ marketshare in server chips. They have an enormous manufacturing advantage. Even though they charge so much for their chips if they feel threatened by Ryzen they can just lower the price of their chips to Ryzen prices because they have a manufacturing advantage. It will just hurt their margins. 40-50% margins forever seem pretty absurd from a pure economics perspective.

Currently it looks like the manufacturing advantage will run out in the next ten to twenty years. There isn't very much innovation in the chip manufacturing business. Intel managed to stay ahead of the curve with their massive R&D budget, but we're well into the diminishing returns territory. Eventually all other players will catch up, unless some breakthrough technology enters the market first.

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#43
post #31
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The split was caused by Tesla pushing targets that Mobileye was not comfortable with. I don't think we know enough about the situation without a report from someone inside the company but it's a little extreme to call them Tesla's table scraps.

Autopilot is floundering in the absence of Mobileye. It will take Tesla a while before their much more expensive hardware suite with 8 cameras and a Px drive chip (just the chip is worth a few thousand dollars) can match the performance of Mobileye's EyeQ3 and single camera.

To be fair, Tesla is only using a single camera for their current functionality with the other cameras remaining idle. I agree though that they're not up to AP1 standards yet (even though they stated they would be by end of December).

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they missed mobile, and PC sales will go down (at some point). Also, ARM on the server?

Mobile chips is low margin, there is hardly any money in it anyway.

That's right, but then when did they spent so much on mobile R+D?

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they missed mobile, and PC sales will go down (at some point). Also, ARM on the server?

They didn't miss mobile. Mobile makes poor margins at least for intel so they are not in it. PC sales are already down. Where they make a ton of their money is data centers.

They did. They invested a lot in R+D on mobile processors.

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#46

What's Intels play here? I'm glad the mobileye team get some nice purim bonus but we'll see in couple of years if Intel won't kill the product (and the team)...

well advances in self driving tech will have payouts in all robotics. any robot needing to operate in an environment which isn't 100% predictable will improve.

simplest way, think of robots used to automate cleaning everything from the mall, your house, to the sides of the roads. or one day pulling up to a fueling facility and it automatically connects to your car for gas/electric/etc all is improved by better sensors and such

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#47
post #27

Yeah, they're old school. They've got all sorts of deep industry partnerships and various driver assist and safety products. What they don't have is a Level 4 autonomous driving OS. Nobody does, it doesn't exist yet. The whole 3 ring circus of chipmakers, OEM's, and various component suppliers that stand to benefit from Autonomous vehicles is held aloft by a single tentpole that doesn't actually exist yet. It's just…

With all the peaks and troughs of AI over the years, don't you think we may be due for another trough, that maybe the reason, to quote: >the experts of yesteryear are almost certainly not the people who will build the autonomous OS of the future is because it will be a very long time before we have anything like a Level 4 vehicle?

It don't believe we're headed into any kind of AI trough. Very exciting things are happening in the field of deep learning, and the people who are best at understanding and applying all that new theory and research are kids who never leave the lab.

Drive.ai is an autonomous driving startup that's made up of mostly unknown Stanford AI lab labmates who dropped out of their PHD programs to build an autonomous OS, and what they're doing is so much more futuristic than what anybody else is doing. They've made more progress in less time with fewer resources than any of the big players. They've got 4 test vehicles, a team of 40 people, they're running on $12 million in venture capital, and they've demoed capabilities that the multi-billion dollar players don't have. They're just pure deep learning guys, they could have gone into fintech or NLP but they went for AVs starting with a blank slate and an abundance of unproven talent.

They're still behind Waymo and Cruise, but they're progressing at a higher rate of speed. Everybody in this game is subject to disruption from some nobody coming out of nowhere. Something like transfer learning drops out of the sky, it has the potential to totally revolutionize the way one might think about an Autonomous driving stack, and it all comes down to the genius who figures out how to apply it effectively. That genius could be anyone, no amount of money you spend can buy certainty in this race. Which makes it really fun to watch.

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#48
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diversification. They see the writing on the wall for their CPU business and it's associated margins. They need other high-margin highly in demand tech products to go after. Furthermore, I'm guessing x86 has almost no representation in the self-driving car space at the moment. They're probably hoping to change that.

>> Diversification. They see the writing on the wall for their CPU business and it's associated margins. They need other high-margin highly in demand tech products to go after. I completely agree. >> Furthermore, I'm guessing x86 has almost no representation in the self-driving car space at the moment. They're probably hoping to change that. But this, not so much. x86 is way too power hungry (especially for EVs) and…

> But this, not so much. x86 is way too power hungry (especially for EVs) and way too expensive for automotive use.

When you're running a electric motor that pulls power on the magnitude of 1 * 10^5 W (i.e. 100 kW+) I doubt you care about a few extra watts total power load if you have an inefficient processor. Similarly for conventional fuel, an extra few watts on the load is hardly going to worry the alternator.

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#49
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all the peaks and troughs of AI over the years, don't you think we may be due for another trough, that maybe the reason, to quote: >the experts of yesteryear are almost certainly not the people who will build the autonomous OS of the future is because it will be a very long time before we have anything like a Level 4 vehicle?

It don't believe we're headed into any kind of AI trough. Very exciting things are happening in the field of deep learning, and the people who are best at understanding and applying all that new theory and research are kids who never leave the lab. Drive.ai is an autonomous driving startup that's made up of mostly unknown Stanford AI lab labmates who dropped out of their PHD programs to build an autonomous OS, and wh…

I'll just be upfront, I'm a total pessimist on the near-term possibility of autonomous driving.

>I don't believe we're headed into any kind of AI trough.

Why? AI winter is a well-known phenomenon, AI hype has permeated tech, now business and is starting to push into the layman's consciousness. Does it not seem that a bust is near? The laymans perception of autonomous driving is a magic box that will drive them around while they read their phones and that it will be here in 5/10 years. I think that's just unsustainable. A car which can handle northern snow, midwestern winds, country potholes, city traffic, unpredictiable/aggressive drivers and which can do that with a lower accident rate than humans is our generations cold fusion. Fundamental breakthroughs are needed.

What strikes me is that we think because we can describe "driving" in one word, we think it is a specific task, but it seems much more general and AI developments on general learning are notoriously fraught. Your thoughts?

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#50

geohot's gonna be all fired-up.

kinda funny since we was very anti mobileye and said they didn't know what they were doing and claimed he was gonna be the ceo of a billion dollar company etc and then the gov shuts him down immediately and mobileye gets acquired for 16B.

dude needs to get back to hacking iphones it seems.

Post reply on HN