Live data from Hacker News

Launch HN: Lively (YC W17) – 401(k) for Healthcare

news.ycombinator.com

41–50 of 65 posts

Re: Launch HN: Lively (YC W17) – 401(k) for Healthcare

#41
post #12

Great stuff! "Were you surprised when you started getting charged a monthly fee for your HSA when you left your employer? Yeah, so were we!" -- this surprised a friend of mine. I sent this his way. Any plans to offer investment options as part of the HSA?

I can't even tell you how "annoyed" we were when we got wind of this. It really is important to us to not charge individuals for the basic HSA. We will be coming out with investment capabilities at the end of Q2. Stay tuned for that. And for full transparency, since that is a premium feature, we will charge individuals for that ability, however our fees for that will be in-line with how the current industry prices it…

And someone will, at some point, point out how 'annoyed' they are at your 'premium feature' fees, when vanguard has much much much lower fees, and most or all of the functionality you'll have developed. or... maybe your plan is to just acquired by vanguard? (I say this not as a vanguard user, but someone who is aware of just how low their fees are relative to most other places, though fidelity is catching up in a lot of areas).

Re: Launch HN: Lively (YC W17) – 401(k) for Healthcare

#42
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Yes we absolutely do. You can sign-up as an individual. When you get to the sign-up screen, just click on the Individual Account. 2. We are going to be launching investment capabilities at the end of Q2. When we do this, you will have access to invest in low cost mutual funds, ETFs, but also straight stocks/bonds, etc. It will be a self-directed option. 3. Yes you can rollover! But be sure to ask your provider if…

If you can offer Vanguard funds with no crazy fees, you will be extremely popular on bogleheads.org. There isn't a clear leader for HSAs for people who just want to invest their HSA money in Vanguard funds. There are some options, but they all have fees that seem unreasonable to me. Hopefully Vanguard will eventually just offer HSA accounts directly.

> Hopefully Vanguard will eventually just offer HSA accounts directly

I thought they did already?

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/whatweoffer/overview/health...

Re: Launch HN: Lively (YC W17) – 401(k) for Healthcare

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can offer Vanguard funds with no crazy fees, you will be extremely popular on bogleheads.org. There isn't a clear leader for HSAs for people who just want to invest their HSA money in Vanguard funds. There are some options, but they all have fees that seem unreasonable to me. Hopefully Vanguard will eventually just offer HSA accounts directly.

> Hopefully Vanguard will eventually just offer HSA accounts directly I thought they did already? https://personal.vanguard.com/us/whatweoffer/overview/health...

Unfortunately they don't... at the bottom of that page it says, "The links to the HealthSavings Administrators and HealthEquity websites take you to sites outside vanguard.com. Vanguard is not responsible for the content of third-party websites."

Re: Launch HN: Lively (YC W17) – 401(k) for Healthcare

#48
post #36
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will you make money off non corporate accounts? Why should an employer pay to set up an account when the employee can do it for free? Generally speaking, the employee is better off anyway because they're in full control. It's not like a 401k where the account custodian is holding the assets. Are cash balances in the non investment funds interest bearing? What are the rates?

We think individuals who have HSAs should be able to save their money without incurring a monthly fee. So many of our own family and friends have told us about how they have a small balance in their HSA account but are getting charged $3, $4, $5, etc. a month just for having that account. We don’t think that’s right so we won’t charge individuals for their basic HSA. Once we have investments up at the end of Q2 and a…

> We think individuals who have HSAs should be able to save their money without incurring a monthly fee. So many of our own family and friends have told us about how they have a small balance in their HSA account but are getting charged $3, $4, $5, etc. a month just for having that account. We don’t think that’s right so we won’t charge individuals for their basic HSA.

There's plenty of zero cost options for HSA. If your friends and family are being charged monthly fees, they haven't done their homework. Five minutes of Googling "best hsa" finds a bunch of options.

> Once we have investments up at the end of Q2 and an individual chooses to invest, we’ll charge a nominal flat monthly fee for that.

That's pretty standard. From what I've seen it ranges from $0 to $1-$1.50/month.

> Since the most people get their HSA through their employer, we’ve built our product in a way that employers can sign up and administer an HSA easily. Things like automatic payroll sync, on boarding in under 10 minutes, viewing the status of where employees are in the process, etc. are all things to reduce the burden of administering HSAs that employers currently experience. For employers who have greater than 10 enrolled employees, we charge $4/month/employee.

I really wonder if most people get HSAs through their employers. Personally I don't know anyone that does. Everybody I know that has one set it up on their own. Plus you need a high deductible plan which is typically the purview of relatively healthy people getting insurance on their own.

Most people I know who have employer provided insurance have plans that would not qualify for an HSA due to lower deductibles or max out of pockets.

> And regarding employers, employee contributions to an HSA are not subject to FICA taxes (social security & medicare) so when employees contribute to their HSA, the employer saves 7.65% since those contributions are not subject to FICA.

Sure it'd be about $200 per HSA employee assuming they maxed out the contribution (after taking out the $4/month x 12 fee). That could definitely add up for a large org but again I don't think most people on employer plans are on HSAs anyway.

> To your question about interest rates, yes we have them available on our website in the Individuals and Families page (in the middle under the white box): https://livelyme.com/individuals-and-families/.

Ah I didn't see it at first. The font blends in with the background. For the curious:

>> Note: interest rates vary based on tiers of daily balances and are paid on the entire balance.Tier 1: 0.05% (APY of 0.05%) for daily balances less than or equal to $2,499.99. Tier 2: 0.15% (APY of 0.15%) for daily balances of $2,500.00 or more, but less than or equal to $4,999.99. Tier 3: 0.30% (APY of 0.30%) for daily balances of $5,000.00 or more, but less than or equal to $14,999.99. Tier 4: 0.55% (APY of 0.55%) for daily balances of $15,000.00 or more. The interest rates and annual percentage yields may change at any time. Interest will be compounded monthly and credited into your account monthly.

Honestly those are pretty bad. The top tier is only .55% and it starts with at a $15K balance. There's plenty of competitors that offer individual accounts with no fees and higher rates. As an example, Lake Michigan Credit Union[1] offers .5% for balances up to $5K, and 1% on anything above that.

Wish you guys the best on this endeavor but honestly I don't see anything special here. I don't see how this can be a going concern in the long run. There's just not enough money to be made and arguably your offering is worse than what's already out there. It's just packaged in a modern website. An informed consumer (at least on an individual basis) wouldn't sign up as there are better options from every angle.

[1]: https://www.lmcu.org/banking/savings/savings_hsa.aspx

Re: Launch HN: Lively (YC W17) – 401(k) for Healthcare

#49

Health Savings Accounts depress me. Its a complete admission that we will never have Healthcare in America as a public benefit. That said, I know I would realize tax savings by saving in an HSA. I refuse to do so because it acknowledges a position I do not agree with: that I should pay for overly expensive Healthcare

Politics aside, I think HSAs are great. Under a single payer system I would expect payroll taxes to be significantly higher (8-10%). You pay that every month even if you don't use it. In return you get free healthcare when you do use it.

With HSAs in America, you save an amount equal to your tax bracket on expenses up to the lesser of your deductible (if plan pays 100% post-deductible) or the maximum HSA contribution (3350 for singles). You only pay this when you need care. You can also use your HSA dollars for things like glasses, pregnancy tests, and teeth cleanings.

There's added incentive for employers to offer HSAs because it reduces their payroll tax as well.

Granted this is all given that you are eligible, can afford, and have health insurance. And that your provider will cover whatever treatment you're seeking.

However, given my plan, I pay about $60/mo after my healthy life plan savings. I can take the savings from that plan and look at my budget and afford to save $100/mo in my HSA. That's $500 "lost to insurance" each year and $1200 growing tax-free given I have no medical expenses (unlikely). Compare that to a single-payer system with ~8% payroll tax. Given I make $5000 a month, that's $400/mo or $4800/yr that's "lost to insurance" given that I have no medical expenses .

I'm not a great example because I'm young, privileged, and healthy. I'm interested in the economics of this whole thing though.

Re: Launch HN: Lively (YC W17) – 401(k) for Healthcare

#50
post #46
post #45

Happy to be a first customer, I hate the current non-transparent options out there!

We'd love to have you on board. When you do sign-up, let us know how we can improve our experience and offering!

The only odd thing for me was it got stuck at a loading screen when I was redirected to my account page. Other than that, I didnt have any problems.

Also it would be nice if Ally was a bank you could link directly with... but I understand if there is some technical issues that prevent certain banks from being able to link automatically.

Post reply on HN