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On Loneliness

krishnamurti-teachings.info

41–50 of 190 posts

Re: On Loneliness

#41
post #19

I am very curious about what people on HN do think about 1.OSHO 2.Sadhguru

There are quite a lot of gems out there in various cultures. Have you read Chuang Tzu? He's deeply insightful.

But a word of caution that the effect of mere words wears off, and more seriously, it is trivial to misunderstand the intended meaning of these various masters. When I was young, it chafed me to read about the novice-master relationship (which is stressed in almost all spiritual schools regardless of time or place), but in mid life I've come to accept that it is truly a necessity if one is seeking truth and wishes to arrive.

Re: On Loneliness

#42
post #38
post #10

As with all enlightened superstar spiritual teachers, just don't look his life too closely or you will be disappointed. Even people who start good and their feet on the ground (like Krishnamurti) end up full of shit when they get too much wrong kind of attention. https://tricycle.org/magazine/the-shadow-side-krishnamurti/ “If you want to lose your religion, make friends with the priest.” As someone who's second caree…

Useful advice for any field. Take no heroes, only inspiration.

I think I have learned most from those unaware that they were teaching.

Re: On Loneliness

#43
Krishnamurti's teachings are based on scriptures such as Upanishads and Gita. He was averse to the notion of having a Guru (or teacher) because the teachers he had seen in his time were very steeped in orthodoxy, despite their learning. He was also against quoting verses from scriptures because he wanted to break away from the traditional teacher-student model.

His teachings are appealing to many people who do not have a sufficient background in the study of Vedanta (the culmination or final word of vedas). There are many contemporary teachers whose teaching is similar to that of JK. Eckhart Tolle, Mooji, Robert Adams, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Ramana Maharshi etc.

To appreciate the teachings of any of the above spiritual giants, one needs to have an intense/burning desire to seek the Self. Once it is realized, it puts an immediate end to all suffering and seeking. The glory of the Self has been described in great detail in Upanishads and Gita. There are supplementary texts that also discuss the approaches to attain it.

Re: On Loneliness

#45

I've read Krishnamurthy and frankly it is hard to tell how much of his output is genuine spiritual insight instead of Theosophic hand-me-down. One thing is for sure, his images in old age (at least to me) convey a melancholic doubt as opposed to the expected beatific enlightened soul. YMMV.

The mind of a motivated seeker tends to be tormented. Perhaps melancholic doubt is a significant brain chemistry upgrade.

Re: On Loneliness

#46

Krishnamurti's teachings are based on scriptures such as Upanishads and Gita. He was averse to the notion of having a Guru (or teacher) because the teachers he had seen in his time were very steeped in orthodoxy, despite their learning. He was also against quoting verses from scriptures because he wanted to break away from the traditional teacher-student model. His teachings are appealing to many people who do not ha…

Not only he decided to be against the "gurus", he was explicitly against every religion too.

http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/about-krishnamurti/dissolution-...

"I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path. If you first understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organize a belief."

"Again, you have the idea that only certain people hold the key to the Kingdom of Happiness. No one holds it. No one has the authority to hold that key. That key is your own self, and in the development and the purification and in the incorruptibility of that self alone is the Kingdom of Eternity."

Note the context -- he was himself "chosen" to be "the guru" as he was 16(!) and he recognized the absurdity of it as he was 32:

"The Order of the Star in the East was founded in 1911 to proclaim the coming of the World Teacher. Krishnamurti was made Head of the Order. On August 3, 1929, the opening day of the annual Star Camp at Ommen, Holland, Krishnamurti dissolved the Order before 3000 members."

( The film of him reading the speech then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYnxRYAHmEs&t=11s )

The teachings of the Order in which he was raised weren't "Upanishads and Gita" but the "Doctrine" of Madam Blavatsky:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Star_in_the_East

"One of the central tenets of late 19th-century Theosophy as promoted by the Theosophical Society was the complex doctrine of intelligent evolution of all existence. This was said to be occurring on a Cosmic scale, incorporating both physical and non-physical aspects of the known and unknown Universe, and affecting all of its constituent parts regardless of apparent size or importance. The theory was originally promulgated in the Secret Doctrine (published 1888), a book by Helena Blavatsky, one of the founders of contemporary Theosophy and the Theosophical Society."

Edit: Upanishads have, unsurprisingly, many more different teachings than what "tech_browser" wrote below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upanishads

They are huge and with a lot of stories, a random sample is here:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe15/sbe15075.htm

Re: On Loneliness

#47
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you completely disentangle an individual's spiritual/religious/philosophical teachings from their personal lives? For example, would you assign the same credibility to the teachings delivered by a Catholic priest who has been proven to have molested children?

re: Catholic priest vs. others and credibility, this SMBC comic is appropriate: http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20110503.gif In other words, it's one thing when someone is claiming to speak on behalf of a deity; it's another otherwise. To be hypocritical in such a context reflects much more harshly on the priest than it does on, say, the civil rights activist.

True, but that only makes the argument weaker for Krishnamurti, who really refused the role of teacher quite strongly himself and certainly didn't want anyone believing in a supernatural savior instead.

Re: On Loneliness

#48
post #45

I've read Krishnamurthy and frankly it is hard to tell how much of his output is genuine spiritual insight instead of Theosophic hand-me-down. One thing is for sure, his images in old age (at least to me) convey a melancholic doubt as opposed to the expected beatific enlightened soul. YMMV.

The mind of a motivated seeker tends to be tormented. Perhaps melancholic doubt is a significant brain chemistry upgrade.

Seeker, sure. Guru, no.

[p.s.]

The Sufi master Attar [1] wrote an entire book [2] -- using the symbol of "flyers" or "birds" -- describing the stages of seekers' path to enlightenment. The mataphor used was 'seven valleys of love' [3] encountered on the way to the 'King of the Birds', each with their own distinct psyho-spiritual state and requirements.

The journey has stages but for some there is a 'successful' end.

"If he who sets out on this way will not engage himself wholly and completely he will never be free from the sadness and melancholy which weigh him down."

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attar_of_Nishapur

[2]: "Expression-Logic of the Birds" aka "Conference of the Birds" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conference_of_the_Birds

[3]: http://chippit.tripod.com/seven_valleys.html

Re: On Loneliness

#50
post #46

Krishnamurti's teachings are based on scriptures such as Upanishads and Gita. He was averse to the notion of having a Guru (or teacher) because the teachers he had seen in his time were very steeped in orthodoxy, despite their learning. He was also against quoting verses from scriptures because he wanted to break away from the traditional teacher-student model. His teachings are appealing to many people who do not ha…

Not only he decided to be against the "gurus", he was explicitly against every religion too. http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/about-krishnamurti/dissolution-... "I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any…

Most religions claim that God is a person and maintain that God created the universe, thereby making God and the universe two separate entities. Further, religion and philosophy are also mixed up. "God in heaven", "Good actions give heaven and bad ones yield hell" etc. are some statements that we often hear.

The distinguishing teaching about the Upanishads is that 1. God is not a person 2. The universe, as we perceive, is an illusion and its underlying reality is God 3. The individual (a person like you and me), is not just a collection of bones, muscles and tissue. Neither is the individual his/her mind. The true-nature of an individual is the indestructible Self. 4. The individual Self and God are one and the same.

There's no such teaching like this in the world. It blows my mind as I read and contemplate on the verses that talk about it. There are several saints who have realized this truth and their position on the issue of God, individual and world are identical to what the Upanishads teach.

IMHO A person who has put to test the teachings of the Upanishadic in his/her own life, and lives by its vision is a real teacher.

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