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Double life as a KGB agent

theguardian.com

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Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#41

Post by quirkafleeg »

arkades wrote: post #40
kev009 wrote: post #24

I had some level of respect for The Guardian vis a vis Glenn Greenwald. But wow, the brazen seed on current events "Might Trump have been recruited by Putin?" and "right wingers are easier to convert". First class journalism right there folks, way to be taken hook line and sinker by the intelligence community while doing an article on the intelligence community. Pretty comical.

I lost my respect for the Guardian a while back. They were reporting on hostilities in Israel. They had a side-bar for "Related Articles", which were one after the other - critical of Israel as being an unprovoked aggressor. Fine, if that's the truth, except: Every article I opened had a long lead-in about Israeli aggression, its consequences, etc. Every article had buried in the last paragraph, practically mumbling…

> why was one headline after the other all about characterizing unprovoked unilateral aggression?

That's hard to say, since you haven't provided any examples of it.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#42

Post by dgrealy »

kev009 wrote: post #24

I had some level of respect for The Guardian vis a vis Glenn Greenwald. But wow, the brazen seed on current events "Might Trump have been recruited by Putin?" and "right wingers are easier to convert". First class journalism right there folks, way to be taken hook line and sinker by the intelligence community while doing an article on the intelligence community. Pretty comical.

What do you think of the american intelligence agencies who say the same thing?

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#43

Post by jimnotgym »

kev009 wrote: post #24

I had some level of respect for The Guardian vis a vis Glenn Greenwald. But wow, the brazen seed on current events "Might Trump have been recruited by Putin?" and "right wingers are easier to convert". First class journalism right there folks, way to be taken hook line and sinker by the intelligence community while doing an article on the intelligence community. Pretty comical.

With the Guardian I think more about the individual writer rather than paper as a whole, as it is run rather differently from most news outlets [0].

And of course a journo is going to try and use current events to shoehorn in a half written story they have had for a while. A bit like how almost every piece of software now has a cloud version.

But the Guardian is critical to the landscape of UK news. It is one of very few newspapers not controlled by a press baron like Murdoch or the 'Weird Twins'. The UK press as a whole is much much more right wing (notably on immigration and the EU) than properly fits the UK IMHO and the Guardian is an important antidote. As well as Snowden, it also broke the important 'phone hacking' scandal, where some tabloids were getting their stories with very questionable ethics. It was also the only newspaper to cover the 'Snoopers Charter' legislation, that allows random parts of the UK government to look at users browsing history (and share it with the US gov).

It shows up so much on HN for its other important trait, no paywall.

[0] : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardian

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#44

Post by johansch »

ethbro wrote: post #33
privong wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the chances of an agent being hired and then promoted to have access to an SCI file you're interested in? I think the chances are higher if you expand the realm of interest to industrial espionage.

Statistically, this seems like a better bet for using the agents.

Right. For instance, if you are China.. odds are you have agents in Google and Facebook, right now.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#45

Post by TheCowboy »

Pyxl101 wrote: post #3

A fair number of sleeper agents like this have been outed over the years. Another example that comes to mind is the KGB agent couple on which the TV show "The Americans" was based: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/07/discovered-our... FBI Operation Ghost Stories arrested 11 people back in 2010. https://vault.fbi.gov/ghost-stories-russian-foreign-intellig... What I'm wondering is: how many other agents are o…

From what I read, initially the Soviet "illegals" programs were successful. This was before the Cold War and during the early parts. After that, it was less successful and often viewed as a waste of resources.

If interested, I recommend "The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archive and the Secret History of the KGB". There was a post-Cold War defection of an individual (Mitrokhin) who worked for the KGB in their archives and provided a large trove of intelligence. A researcher (Christopher Andrew) collaborated with him to produce 2 books, which included a large amount of data about the Soviet "illegals" programs.

It's often going to just be more effective to bribe and blackmail people with access, rather than hope your illegals have successful careers and gain the right access.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#46

Post by BrailleHunting »

I don't want to sound like racist/FUD but there are a lot of eastern European coders working at MetLife to this day: both in NYC and elsewhere. Maybe being cheap on staff creates a greater vulnerability to foreign/industrial espionage? Just stayin'.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#47

Post by twblalock »

kev009 wrote: post #24

I had some level of respect for The Guardian vis a vis Glenn Greenwald. But wow, the brazen seed on current events "Might Trump have been recruited by Putin?" and "right wingers are easier to convert". First class journalism right there folks, way to be taken hook line and sinker by the intelligence community while doing an article on the intelligence community. Pretty comical.

Unlike the American press, which generally tries to promote a naive concept of objectivity, the UK press is not shy about taking a side. It's the reader's job to decide what to believe, and that's true in the US as well -- even though many Americans want to believe in an objective press, that's clearly not the case. At least the Brits are honest about it. You can't outsource your critical thinking to journalists.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#48

Post by quirkafleeg »

TheCowboy wrote: post #45
Pyxl101 wrote: post #3

A fair number of sleeper agents like this have been outed over the years. Another example that comes to mind is the KGB agent couple on which the TV show "The Americans" was based: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/07/discovered-our... FBI Operation Ghost Stories arrested 11 people back in 2010. https://vault.fbi.gov/ghost-stories-russian-foreign-intellig... What I'm wondering is: how many other agents are o…

From what I read, initially the Soviet "illegals" programs were successful. This was before the Cold War and during the early parts. After that, it was less successful and often viewed as a waste of resources. If interested, I recommend "The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archive and the Secret History of the KGB". There was a post-Cold War defection of an individual (Mitrokhin) who worked for the KGB in their a…

> There was a post-Cold War defection of an individual (Mitrokhin) who worked for the KGB in their archives and provided a large trove of intelligence.

The article refers to that; in fact it's how this agent was identified:

    Barsky had in fact been trailed for several years
    by the FBI. His name had been discovered in files
    copied from KGB archives by Vasili Mitrokin, an 
    archivist who walked into the British embassy in 
    Riga in 1991 to offer up his secrets.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#49

Post by 77pt77 »

kev009 wrote: post #24

I had some level of respect for The Guardian vis a vis Glenn Greenwald. But wow, the brazen seed on current events "Might Trump have been recruited by Putin?" and "right wingers are easier to convert". First class journalism right there folks, way to be taken hook line and sinker by the intelligence community while doing an article on the intelligence community. Pretty comical.

> I had some level of respect for The Guardian vis a vis Glenn Greenwald

Are you familiar with Sam Harris' objections to his character?

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#50

Post by markdown »

arkades wrote: post #40
kev009 wrote: post #24

I had some level of respect for The Guardian vis a vis Glenn Greenwald. But wow, the brazen seed on current events "Might Trump have been recruited by Putin?" and "right wingers are easier to convert". First class journalism right there folks, way to be taken hook line and sinker by the intelligence community while doing an article on the intelligence community. Pretty comical.

I lost my respect for the Guardian a while back. They were reporting on hostilities in Israel. They had a side-bar for "Related Articles", which were one after the other - critical of Israel as being an unprovoked aggressor. Fine, if that's the truth, except: Every article I opened had a long lead-in about Israeli aggression, its consequences, etc. Every article had buried in the last paragraph, practically mumbling…

Israel is occupying Palestine. When Palestinians fight back, Israelis can't claim to have been provoked, when their occupation is the original provocation.

It's like claiming Hitler just justified in killing 6 million jews because after he killed 1 million, a few jews tried to fight back, and he had to kill another 5 million because he was provoked.

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