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Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

graphengine.io

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Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#41

Post by ygra »

Someone1234 wrote: post #36
jpfed wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am under the impression that MS has a lot of different parts, and that these parts have different cultures and goals. MS Research and their developer division seem really open-source-friendly, but that may or may not say anything about their OS team.

Their OS team just put a Ubuntu-Linux subsystem into Windows via direct kernel calls. I'd be careful assuming anything about them.

They were also very careful not to touch anything GPL-licensed. The Linux syscalls were all implemented from scratch. So it's effectively a proprietary reimplementation of parts of the Linux kernel. I'm not sure how much that says about open-source plans of Windows itself.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#42

Post by [deleted] »

ygra wrote: post #41
Someone1234 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their OS team just put a Ubuntu-Linux subsystem into Windows via direct kernel calls. I'd be careful assuming anything about them.

They were also very careful not to touch anything GPL-licensed. The Linux syscalls were all implemented from scratch. So it's effectively a proprietary reimplementation of parts of the Linux kernel. I'm not sure how much that says about open-source plans of Windows itself.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#43

Post by Someone1234 »

WayneBro wrote: post #19
bluejekyll wrote: post #5

At this rate, are we going to see Windows open-sourced? MS is on a roll. My bias since 1996 is being eroded with each OSS release they have, and multi-platform targeted support. I started using VSCode regularly as my main Rust IDE, and I feel dirty for liking it. It's seemless across macOS and Linux.

Not yet. Their next strategy is to try and use ARM (again) to shove UWP down your throat. I love Windows but I seriously will not touch UWP until they loosen up the sandbox restrictions so that I can do regular IPC with a win32 desktop app. You can't even send an HTTP request to a little node.js Web server running on your desktop right now. Fuck that. I'm not buying into it.

> I love Windows but I seriously will not touch UWP until they loosen up the sandbox restrictions so that I can do regular IPC with a win32 desktop app.

The whole reason for the UWP sandboxing is to make it so that users can confidently install UWP applications with some assurances that it isn't spyware/malware/blackmailware that will take over their PC or steal their personal information.

UWP is Microsoft's answer to years of criticism they received for the way process permissions work on Windows. They aren't going to just dump it all because you and a few others find the priviledge model inconvenient.

> You can't even send an HTTP request to a little node.js Web server running on your desktop right now.

If your node.js web server was network accessible you could. But, no, it won't allow unchecked IPC as that directly defeats the whole point of sandboxing to begin with.

Personally I haven't used UWP much either, but that has nothing to do with sandboxing and everything to do with poor performance and UI issues (e.g. window controls, built in UI elements, etc). I still find the Windows 10 UWP Calculator horrible to use, it was a MASSIVE downgrade over the old one.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#46

Post by olyjohn »

bluejekyll wrote: post #5

At this rate, are we going to see Windows open-sourced? MS is on a roll. My bias since 1996 is being eroded with each OSS release they have, and multi-platform targeted support. I started using VSCode regularly as my main Rust IDE, and I feel dirty for liking it. It's seemless across macOS and Linux.

It's not like they're doing it out of the goodness of their heart. They don't have a choice, they were becoming irrelevant, and now they're playing catch up to try to bring back all the devs to their platform.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#47

Post by v-yadli »

tempVariable wrote: post #38

I see that the source code "os.h" file has directives to handle Linux and Apple. Has anyone managed to build it and use it in the even most trivial way?

At the current state you could link Trinity.C with a custom Mono host and then execute your GE assemblies/Trinity.Core. Check out CMakeFile.txt for details. :) We're working to interface Trinity with CoreCLR. .NET standard 2.0 would make this much easier.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#49

Post by Someone1234 »

WayneBro wrote: post #39
Kipters wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate on the HTTP part? You just need the "Internet (client)" capability in your manifest, it's even enabled by default when you create a new project Moreover, win32 desktop apps can use the AppService mechanism exposed by UWP apps (but cannot host an AppService themselves, just connect to UWP-hosted AppServices)

Give it a try. You can't send requests to `localhost` or `127.0.0.1` at all. AppService is largely useless for IPC between UWP and Win32 since the UWP app can't initiate a request to the Win32 app. Another thing you can't do, which is really annoying: UWP won't let your code start an external process and use standard i/o pipes to communicate with it. The only possibility is to use files for IPC and you'd have to have…

> However UWP can't listen for changes in those same files, so it's a real PITA.

It can via the ContentChanged event see this example:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/39737147/how-can-i-watch-...

> Give it a try. You can't send requests to `localhost` or `127.0.0.1` at all.

Luckily getting the local IP address is easy enough from UWP: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/33770429/how-do-i-find-th...

That will work since it is treated like all other network traffic. localhost and 127.0.0.1 are considered privildged routes since you can bypass the firewall and exploit local processes to escalate.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#50

Post by WayneBro »

PatentTroll wrote: post #27
WayneBro wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not yet. Their next strategy is to try and use ARM (again) to shove UWP down your throat. I love Windows but I seriously will not touch UWP until they loosen up the sandbox restrictions so that I can do regular IPC with a win32 desktop app. You can't even send an HTTP request to a little node.js Web server running on your desktop right now. Fuck that. I'm not buying into it.

I don't get the outrage over the rumored UWP only windows. There is no indication that MS would drop win32. This is a separate product, likely for a particular market. It's more of an iPad competitor than a Windows desktop replacement. So don't use it if it offends you, that's OK. I don't think this is all that forceful really.

They already did UWP-only Windows. That was WindowsRT. Nobody bought into that either, but Microsoft still really, really wants that closed-market, walled-garden style business model to happen somehow and so they're going to keep trying.

I believe that their next strategy is to release a full Windows OS (with Win32) that runs on ARM which lets Win32 apps run via an emulator. In this environment, Win32 apps will most likely run like crap and as a matter of course Microsoft is going to keep pushing everybody (developers and users) toward the model that they think will make them the most money.

It's really no problem for my career because I stopped exclusively using Microsoft's tech years ago and I'm comfortable using Linux or a Mac if necessary (but really, I can't stand their UI and I think Apple is even worse than Microsoft in many, many ways). I just like the Windows UI the best and I'd like to be able to build stuff for it in the future....but not if they are working towards taking away my freedom to control my own computer.

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