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The next big blue collar job is coding

wired.com

41–50 of 114 posts

Re: The next big blue collar job is coding

#41
This is arguably the stupidest thing I have ever read. I spent a good portion of my life learning to be a software developer--CS in college, then grad school to specialize in UX type work for awhile. Even the "local Credit Union" is not a blue collar role. Being a developer requires aptitude and constant study.

I take offense because my Dad was a welder, a real blue collar worker, and it sucked balls! He never wanted that kind of life for me and for good reason, it was a dead end--working with drunks and biker trash and it was dirty and dangerous inside power plants, paper mills and tall smoke stacks.

Don't write about things you don't have the first clue about!

Re: The next big blue collar job is coding

#42

This is actually how programming started in the first place, and still is. It's only because of highly publicized Valley-style successes, mysticism ("these twenty-somethings wrote an app and got rich? Surely they are geniuses!") and remnants of the dotcom era that programming still has a glamorous air. Programming used to be women's work (i.e. "low level" work, similar to typists according to 1960s stereotypes), and…

It was never "women's work"--wiring up those analog machines is really in no way programming.

Re: The next big blue collar job is coding

#43
post #8

From Scott Adams: "If you want an average successful life, it doesn’t take much planning. Just stay out of trouble, go to school, and apply for jobs you might like. But if you want something extraordinary, you have two paths: 1. Become the best at one specific thing. 2. Become very good (top 25%) at two or more things. The first strategy is difficult to the point of near impossibility. Few people will ever play in th…

Becoming moderately good at two things is how I ended up where I am. Before I went to college I did freelance graphic design. In college I ended up studying computer science, simply because that's what my brother majored in. The two combined meant I was getting job offers in my sophomore year. I can't stress just how much it helps when I'm applying for jobs - not only do I have a wider selection (design and programming jobs), but it also opens up niche jobs which are typically in high demand and low supply (prototyper, my current role). Scott's advice here is spot on and is the first thing I recommend to people when they're looking to prepare to enter the workforce.

Re: The next big blue collar job is coding

#44

Why coding and not mechanical engineering? MEs often have jobs that could be considered blue collar if not for their degree: designing, installing, & building the same equipment that many blue collar workers use or maintain. It's because coding is seen as a trivial job despite requiring the same amount of education as an ME. Society has this imagine of 14 year old hackers that can do it with minimal training. So it's…

Why coding and not mechanical engineering? MEs often have jobs that could be considered blue collar if not for their degree: designing, installing, & building the same equipment that many blue collar workers use or maintain.

Mechanical engineering has become a form of coding. Creating a structured design in CAD strikes me as being similar to creating a software design in code.

I'm not an ME, but I work at a site that employs a number of engineers: Mechanical, electrical, embedded systems, software, manufacturing, etc. Granted, the kind of work done by engineers varies from one industry to another. At my site, most of the engineers do very little engineering per se. They spend most of their time creating parts and assemblies in CAD, dealing with suppliers, and engineering bureaucracy (sprints, JIRA, document control, etc.), and troubleshooting manufacturing problems. The software engineers are doing pretty much the same thing, with different tools (IDE instead of CAD).

Part of the issue is degree inflation: People who used to attend trade school and became draftsmen or designers, are now getting 4 year engineering degrees, but the work for draftsmen and designers is still the same, albeit with more efficient tools.

Re: The next big blue collar job is coding

#45

This seems to depend heavily on the specific role and type of software! Building LLVM, cutting edge vision systems, self driving cars, sublinear time algorithms, ..., all probably take a bit more study than the standard definition of blue collar would demand.

[deleted]

Re: The next big blue collar job is coding

#46

This seems to depend heavily on the specific role and type of software! Building LLVM, cutting edge vision systems, self driving cars, sublinear time algorithms, ..., all probably take a bit more study than the standard definition of blue collar would demand.

As a counter example of what is hard or not, a bit more study is easy compared to 'the standard definition of blue collar'. As an example. Pick up a 50 pound box. Walk ten feet with it, and set it down. Repeat. For 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. That makes advanced systems design, such as self driving cars look trivial because theres a ton of talent lifting one enormously complex box, one time - then it ships.

Re: The next big blue collar job is coding

#47
post #32

Other advice from Scott Adams: "The reality is that women are treated differently by society for exactly the same reason that children and the mentally handicapped are treated differently. It’s just easier this way for everyone. You don’t argue with a four-year old about why he shouldn’t eat candy for dinner. You don’t punch a mentally handicapped guy even if he punches you first. And you don’t argue when a women tel…

He's got a point though. The 70 cents on the dollar thing has been debunked pretty thoroughly by now, and yet people just keep mindlessly parroting it. Maybe arguing about it is not, in fact, a sensible thing to do.

Re: The next big blue collar job is coding

#48

The big problem with this is that we're already competing to some extent with outsourcing shops in China and India and this trend is more likely to grow than not. While I believe there will always be an incentive to keep these jobs in-house and local, there is no reason to think it will grow to the extent that middle class blue collar work did through the industrial revolution.

I work in China as a programmer and the local outsourcing shops tend to throw tons of very cheap labour at anything. Unless you're building critical or sensitive systems this model can work (even for physical products and civil engineering if "QA'd" enough through brute force). It's a complete pain in the ass for the in-house team who have to pick up the pieces and maintain the code, though.

I've worked on code that came from those shops (though maybe India more than China) and I completely agree. But it's still going to be hard to make the case for coding to expand the way auto manufacturing did, for example, when we're already outsourcing a huge chunk of work. And there's no reason to think they won't get better at the work there in any case.

Re: The next big blue collar job is coding

#49
post #2

Considering the quality of the code I see currently and the costs created by that technical debt I'm not sure if becoming less elitist will be a good thing. Instead of all these code camps, I can't help but wonder if we could get 90% of the value and 10% of the problems if we taught people shell scripting instead of programming. It looks like wireds ad-blocker blocker has been circumvented now at least.

>> shell scripting instead of programming. I was at a discovery conference (lawyers) listening to a vendor pitching the cost of writing some ediscovery syntax to delve through a 50gb database of emails. While he was talking I performed a grep search on my ubuntu netbook, with the database on an encrypted thumbdrive. In a matter of minutes I convinced the client that he didn't need coders to do much of anything, that…

So for a lawyer on overtime that's still more than a coder makes for 6h work.

Re: The next big blue collar job is coding

#50
A presumption of this article, and many like it, is a backwards-looking and somewhat elitist view of the economy and the workforce.

Consider these quotes:

* "What if we regarded code not as a high-stakes, sexy affair, but the equivalent of skilled work at a Chrysler plant?"

* "teachers and businesses would spend less time urging kids to do expensive four-year computer-­science degrees and instead introduce more code at the vocational level in high school. You could learn how to do it at a community college"

The problem is that manufacturing jobs, or their equivalent, is going backwards. We want to go forwards, improve opportunity, income and quality of life for each generation. We want higher-paying, higher-skill jobs.

Rather than find ways to not go to college, what if we continued the trend of each generation being more educated than the last? What if we sent people to college? Sanders proposed college for all, arguing that high school was sufficient a century ago but now college is needed. Clinton proposed something similar, free college for families making The idea that 'college isn't for everyone' is elitist. It really means that 'college isn't for the children of the working class, only those of the wealthy'. Think about it: Will the children of Senators go to college? I think so. The children of most people reading this? Of SV millionaires? Of Apple and GM executives? Do they tell their kids, 'college isn't for everyone; learn a trade at community college'? Somehow college is for all their kids (with few exceptions), so the evidence seems strong that with the proper resources, it's for everyone.

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