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Why Silicon Valley Wouldn't Work Without Immigrants

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Silicon Valley Wouldn't Work Without Immigrants

#41

Post by davidw »

jdavis703 wrote: post #19

Isn't the solution to H1B abuse to just let people work anywhere they want after being granted the visa? This would then let the market determine the salary for this class of workers, and should put a stop to the abuses by big consulting firms.

This is precisely the solution. Maybe some kind of points based system would work too: "do you meet qualifications X, Y, and Z? Ok, great!" - that could even work to limit silly magic numbers of visas, as well.

http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-optimal-number...

Re: Why Silicon Valley Wouldn't Work Without Immigrants

#42

Post by projectramo »

ones_and_zeros wrote: post #14

I'll take a stab at a response: - The argument against H1B isn't an argument against immigration or immigrants, it is an argument against corporate welfare. This pretty much negates all of the points the author makes (We all agree immigrants provide diversity, some are net positives on the economy, sometimes talent doesn't exist in the US, etc) - H1Bs aren't allowed to start companies, so this point is moot - It isn'…

"The argument against H1B isn't an argument against immigration or immigrants..."

Whatever the "arguments" may be for or against, the policies that fall out of those arguments have an impact on immigration and hiring practices.

-- So are you saying we should let H1bs start companies and not be reliant on the job?

-- "It isn't surprising that many companies are founded by immigrants or children of immigrants."

50% of the company is not immigrants. 50%! That number is mind blowing. That is much higher than the country as a whole.

-- "startups valued at more than 1 billion dollars? OK..."

?

-- "those dollars in the economy are concentrated in hands of the very wealthy"

You think immigration is to blame for income inequality?

-- " I have a hard time believing "

This is not an argument. You're just asserting that he is lying without any argument.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Wouldn't Work Without Immigrants

#43

Post by vthallam »

leereeves wrote: post #29
moultano wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Bannon does.

Source?

I couldn't find the video, i suppose the soundcloud link on Verge has the audio where he does say we should not keep people who went good American schools.

link : https://soundcloud.com/breitbart/breitbart-news-daily-donald...

The part where he says, "a country is more than a economy, it's also a civic society" in the context that there are more south asian CEO's in silicon valley is terrifying.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Wouldn't Work Without Immigrants

#44

Post by leereeves »

otalp wrote: post #34
leereeves wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source?

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/16/13653490/steve-bannon-tru...

I was hoping for an actual quote from Bannon that supports that claim, instead of an article that admits:

> While Bannon didn’t explicitly say anything against immigrants,

then adds the partisan spin:

> he seemed to hint ...

Re: Why Silicon Valley Wouldn't Work Without Immigrants

#45

Post by MichaelBurge »

otalp wrote: post #30
MichaelBurge wrote: post #8

The immigration-related policies I've heard of were: * H1B wage increase: I heard a rumor somewhere that they were thinking about raising the minimum wage for either H1B visas or NAFTA jobs to $130k. That shouldn't affect the Googles and Apples of the world at all; if anything, it benefits them because it frees the slots the cheap H1B outsourcing firms are taking up, or removes competition from low-paying startups. *…

Iran is a huge bed for talent. As the article mentioned, 2 of the 3 people who created Google's Ad Services came from Iran, which came under the recent EO. But in general it is the rise of anti-immigration sentiment, and the instability with respect to immigration. There's the case of green cards for Indians and the Chinese. Under the current system, Indians and Chinese workers who start the process of getting a gree…

> But in general it is the rise of anti-immigration sentiment, and the instability with respect to immigration.

I guess that makes sense. If you have a low opinion of Trump starting out, then hearing about his upcoming "immigration reform" is like the Pointy-Haired Boss telling you not to worry about that race condition in the billing server because he "fixed" it: It just makes you more worried.

> Under the current system, Indians and Chinese workers who start the process of getting a green card today must wait at least 13 years to get it.

That sounds terrible. Would plans to make the requirements more strict(such as requiring them to work a high-paying job, or sorting them by the salary of the sponsoring employer) help alleviate this, since the queue will be shorter?

Re: Why Silicon Valley Wouldn't Work Without Immigrants

#46

Post by pyb »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #4

Questions for Valley workers: at what point is enough enough? What will it take to pack it up and leave? Would you consider moving to a different country or returning to a home country? If so, would you continue to work for your current employer, would you look for a job in the local market, or would you found a startup?

The larger problem is not so much people leaving, but those not coming to the Valley in the first place.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Wouldn't Work Without Immigrants

#47

Post by projectramo »

leereeves wrote: post #29
moultano wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Bannon does.

Source?

http://mcfeely.areavoices.com/2017/02/01/bannon-legal-immigr...

"Isn’t the beating heart of this problem, the real beating heart of it, of what we got to get sorted out here, is not illegal immigration, as horrific as that is and it’s horrific, don’t we have a problem and we’ve looked the other way on this legal immigration..." -- Bannon

Re: Why Silicon Valley Wouldn't Work Without Immigrants

#48

Post by dragonwriter »

ones_and_zeros wrote: post #14

I'll take a stab at a response: - The argument against H1B isn't an argument against immigration or immigrants, it is an argument against corporate welfare. This pretty much negates all of the points the author makes (We all agree immigrants provide diversity, some are net positives on the economy, sometimes talent doesn't exist in the US, etc) - H1Bs aren't allowed to start companies, so this point is moot - It isn'…

> The argument against H1B isn't an argument against immigration or immigrants, it is an argument against corporate welfare.

Which argument against H1Bs are you referring to? Because Steve Bannon's, which may well be the most influential in government policy right now, was embedded against an argument that also specifically called out the overall proportion of immigrants in the US population as a problem. It is, quite directly, an anti-immigrant argument.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Wouldn't Work Without Immigrants

#49

Post by skocznymroczny »

MichaelBurge wrote: post #8

The immigration-related policies I've heard of were: * H1B wage increase: I heard a rumor somewhere that they were thinking about raising the minimum wage for either H1B visas or NAFTA jobs to $130k. That shouldn't affect the Googles and Apples of the world at all; if anything, it benefits them because it frees the slots the cheap H1B outsourcing firms are taking up, or removes competition from low-paying startups. *…

Describing people as "high quality" is part of the problem. Are people from Syria low quality? They are human beings just like us, fleeing a conflict which has destroyed their lives.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Wouldn't Work Without Immigrants

#50

Post by ones_and_zeros »

adventured wrote: post #28
ones_and_zeros wrote: post #14

I'll take a stab at a response: - The argument against H1B isn't an argument against immigration or immigrants, it is an argument against corporate welfare. This pretty much negates all of the points the author makes (We all agree immigrants provide diversity, some are net positives on the economy, sometimes talent doesn't exist in the US, etc) - H1Bs aren't allowed to start companies, so this point is moot - It isn'…

> and those dollars in the economy are concentrated in hands of the very wealthy on the backs of immigrants. You're very obviously wrong. The employees of Tesla and its suppliers will extract the extreme majority of all financial value from the existence of Tesla. If Tesla survives for 20 years, that tally will be in the multiple hundreds of billions. Elon Musk will end up owning a single digit percentage of that val…

This feels like a straw man, I did not make the argument that founders will retain all of the value. Obvious the economy is complex but corporate profits and executive pay are at all time highs. Employees are capturing less and less of the revenue stream. Now, founders may not retain their ownership but the ownership will remain in the hands of the class of the wealthy.

(I think it is a weak point for me to make, but I'm pretty sure there won't be Uber drivers in 20 years, probably not in 10.)

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