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Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

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Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#42
Could H-1B be more effective? Yes. It could definitely be more fair to the visa holder and do a better job of attracting and retaining the most skilled workers.

But I also think it's totally wrong to say we don't have a technology labor shortage. The best evidence of this are the salary numbers for people with math and science degrees. It's not because physics and math suddenly got more valuable. It's because tech is so starved for labor it's hiring people from different disciplines to do the job and it's actually brought the average salaries in line with CS and engineering graduates.

Also, even if we had an adequate national labor supply, the job opportunities are not distributed proportional to population density. The density of technology jobs is highly concentrated in a few parts of the country, but we are producing qualified engineers everywhere. And not everyone is willing or able to move.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every tech company I've worked at rejects well over 90% of their applicants and has an interview process that would be considered insane in almost any other field. Joel Spolsky explains why this does not imply what you think it implies. http://www.inc.com/magazine/20070501/column-guest.html tl;dr; Imagine 1 low quality developer who applies to 9 places and gets rejected. There's also 1 high quality developer who appl…

Inc.com is a really bad source for such information... As if they would be expected to be neutral in such a situation. If this was true you would see it across professions and at every level of position, yet it's something fairly unique to software development.

I can attest that this is true for mechanical/automotive industry.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#44
post #29

ex H1B here. Yes Trump is right.(though I do not like him personally, he is right in this matter) Most of the corporate America is exploiting H1B workers. I have worked in one of those firms and I have friends in many other firms. These are not Indian body shops, these are American companies. Everyone's topic of discussion when we hangout is how our H1B visas were being exploited and there is nothing we could do abou…

Thanks, Do you know how long it might take to get that approved?

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#45

The title is a bit overly-polarizing; Prof. Matloff has been an outspoken critic of H-1Bs for quite some time, and only mentions the president once in the article. The actual EO isn't even out yet.

If you're going to do policy advocacy, it's a good idea to do it before the EO gets issued.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#46
Speaking as someone who has hired H1-B's in the past, there really do seem to be two tiers. There's the companies/organizations that are truly abusing the system and then there are the traditional tech companies who are happy to hire anyone qualified, no matter where they are from, and pay and promote them the same as other employees. They also sponsor green cards. Competition between these employers has gotten to the point where they mostly all do the sponsorship immediately, too, reducing the time the person is "stuck" in the job to around a year (not great, but not horrible -- most people are "stuck" in their job that long so that they will at least vest some of their stock-based compensation).

One example: I hired an engineer who I'm going to anonymously name Bob. Bob was at Yahoo and on an H1-B. Yahoo was his first employer in SV, he had gone to CMU. He interviewed reasonably well, not amazingly, but had experience and interest in a specialty that many people aren't interested in. At the time we were trying to take a team of these people from 2 or 3 engineers to 20, so we were pretty excited. Bob also got an offer from Netflix. Netflix, if you don't know, gives offers that are basically "all-in" -- you can take the entire offer as cash, or you can parse it out and use some of it for health care, stock, etc -- your choice. The end result is that matching Netflix offers is very expensive. We mostly matched the Netflix offer (we felt our stock was going to have more upside -- which ended up being very true). I had to do extra work for this person to get them hired above and beyond what I'd have to do for an American. Then I had to do even more work to get the employer part of the green card process started. I had to help them navigate getting required documentation from Yahoo. Bob got promoted on a similar schedule to other people and as far as I know is still happily employed, now with a green card application that will transfer with them to any other employer they move to.

I would have _happily_ hired locally, and in fact most of the people I hired for that team were US citizens, Bob was one of 3 H1-Bs. He was from India, another was from Singapore, and the third was from France. They were all very talented engineers and any company would hire them in their specialty in a heartbeat.

I find it hard to say the workers in either of the two camps are particularly exploited (at least once they're in the country -- I've read ugly things about how they go into debt to be able to get these positions in the first placed). They are being paid fair market value for the work they are doing. The money they're making is far in excess of what they earn elsewhere -- that's why they go through the lengths they go through to get these jobs in the first place. If they have the ability to get hired at a more traditional tech company, that company will take over sponsorship of their H1-B with very little complication -- demand is effectively infinite for good engineers who are happy to work.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every tech company I've worked at rejects well over 90% of their applicants and has an interview process that would be considered insane in almost any other field. Joel Spolsky explains why this does not imply what you think it implies. http://www.inc.com/magazine/20070501/column-guest.html tl;dr; Imagine 1 low quality developer who applies to 9 places and gets rejected. There's also 1 high quality developer who appl…

Inc.com is a really bad source for such information... As if they would be expected to be neutral in such a situation. If this was true you would see it across professions and at every level of position, yet it's something fairly unique to software development.

Joel Spolsky makes important points in the article. Disregarding them because you don't like the web site that they're posted on is fallacious reasoning.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#48
Whoever argues that H1Bs are paid handsomely, have a look at this data disclosure for 2016 H1B wages (137 MB) from DOL. You can find all the details of companies that exploits the workers with some MS Excel wizardry.

https://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/docs/Performance_Dat...

The companies exploit a loop hole called "Pay Ranges" if you see the excel columns - WAGE_RATE_OF_PAY_FROM & WAGE_RATE_OF_PAY_TO, rather than a single absolute WAGE, the companies can legally pay any salary in that range.

That's where Mr Trump needs to "patch" the system, raise the minimum WAGE_RATE_OF_PAY_FROM.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#49

I'll just suggest that it's probably a great time for tech companies to open a Bangalore or Gurgaon office. Bangalore in particular is a good choice - the people are smart, the infrastructure is good, and it's a very pleasant place to visit. Perfect weather all year and the best breakfast in India. Also a very strong tech culture; second in the world to SF, in my view, and without many of the social pathologies [1] t…

Bangalore Valley!

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#50
post #44
post #29

ex H1B here. Yes Trump is right.(though I do not like him personally, he is right in this matter) Most of the corporate America is exploiting H1B workers. I have worked in one of those firms and I have friends in many other firms. These are not Indian body shops, these are American companies. Everyone's topic of discussion when we hangout is how our H1B visas were being exploited and there is nothing we could do abou…

Thanks, Do you know how long it might take to get that approved?

If you satisfy the points under this grid -

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/grid-crs.asp

and your documentations are correct, 6 months is the SLA.

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