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H-1B draft with proposed changes [pdf]

lofgren.house.gov

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Re: H-1B draft with proposed changes [pdf]

#41

Post by ganeshkrishnan »

dragonwriter wrote: post #27
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By definition, increasing barriers to entry, drives supply down. Holding demand constant, and assuming price elasticity: Lowering supply, increases "prices" (in this case salaries). Assumption, demand is constant: I'm talking about demand in the economic sense, i.e. The demand curve. The demand curve is left unchanged by this bill. i.e. We still need the same number of software developers, and for any $X/person compa…

> The demand curve is left unchanged by this bill Globally, sure, but the global supply of labor in any field isn't changed, only the US supply. In many cases, H-1B work isn't extremely location-sensitive, and foreign suppliers are acceptable substitutes to local suppliers. To the extent this is true in any field, the effect of restricting visa supply is to offshore more work.

This. Outsourcing to India had slowed down in the last few years because wages in India shot up and it didn't make sense to outsource.

See: http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/29/mitra-india-outsourcing-tec...

The wages for IT workers rose insanely in India. In places like Salt Lake (where IBM, CTS and other bigwigs are established) they drove the real estate prices by more than 10x in few years.

The decline started few years back when the cost to outsource was nearly equal to paying an H1b person or hiring a local.

Most tech companies including Apple & Google hardly pay any tax, would you really expect them to pay artificial rates for labor?

Re: H-1B draft with proposed changes [pdf]

#42

Post by explainthisth »

rhapsodic wrote: post #34
explainthisth wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you figure? Right now, consulting companies spam the lottery with shitty jobs. With the new system favoring quality $130k+ jobs there will be a bigger supply of good H1Bs to compete with. I'm very unsure about this, but thinking maybe I should hurry and buy a house if this passes.

> You sure about that? Right now, consulting companies spam the lottery with shitty jobs. With the new system favoring quality $130k+ jobs there will be a bigger supply of good H1Bs to compete with. The supply is artificially set by law. The fact that they will cost $130K instead of whatever it was before will make it much easier for me to compete with them. It might also make it economically feasible for US companie…

It should make it easier for Americans to get the jobs Infosys is hiring for at $70k, and harder for Americans to get jobs from Google at $250k.

Re: H-1B draft with proposed changes [pdf]

#43

Post by rboyd »

tn13 wrote: post #36
rhapsodic wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's simple economics. H1B's increase the supply of developers in the US, relative to the demand. And that drives the price of developers (i.e. wages) down. I don't think any intelligent person can fail to understand that. To answer your question, I don't have trouble finding or keeping employment. This move will simply drive up my market value. So I'm for it.

> It's simple economics. H1B's increase the supply of developers in the US, relative to the demand. And that drives the price of developers (i.e. wages) down. I don't think any intelligent person can fail to understand that. The simple economics you are quoting will argue against protectionism. Even hypothetically assuming it will increase wages it will in turn make it costly to innovate and increase the cost of serv…

This was a nice stroll through fantasy land.

The reality though is that H-1B has been so completely abused over the past decade to the point that wages for skilled Americans have suffered a serious pushdown effect.

It's not the fault of the workers, and if this goes through we're sad that folks will feel some pain, but it's about time this gets patched up.

Re: H-1B draft with proposed changes [pdf]

#44

Post by praneshp »

mavelikara wrote: post #28
praneshp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highly illegal and HIGHLY common. When my wife moved here (I uprooted her career because of our marriage), she spoke to a few of these people. It was way easier to get an illegal job, and better green card prospects (don't know why).

Things are much better these days with proprietors, HR folks and lawyers of these firms getting jail sentences.

Many of them? I saw a couple in the news, so there is a general push in the right direction I guess.

Re: H-1B draft with proposed changes [pdf]

#45

Post by fusion_guru »

Everyone seems to think that H1-B visas are just for tech employees. What about other professional service fields like RN's in private and public or community clinics, doctors e.t.c. I doubt all eligible jobs can pay the proposed amount. Also what about geographic cost of living adjustment? If anything this bill concentrates high wages in the pasts and maybe Chicago. I don't know how this changes the equation for middle America.

Re: H-1B draft with proposed changes [pdf]

#47

Post by Gargoyle »

dragonwriter wrote: post #27
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By definition, increasing barriers to entry, drives supply down. Holding demand constant, and assuming price elasticity: Lowering supply, increases "prices" (in this case salaries). Assumption, demand is constant: I'm talking about demand in the economic sense, i.e. The demand curve. The demand curve is left unchanged by this bill. i.e. We still need the same number of software developers, and for any $X/person compa…

> The demand curve is left unchanged by this bill Globally, sure, but the global supply of labor in any field isn't changed, only the US supply. In many cases, H-1B work isn't extremely location-sensitive, and foreign suppliers are acceptable substitutes to local suppliers. To the extent this is true in any field, the effect of restricting visa supply is to offshore more work.

Sounds like no one is hurt by this then. Let's do it.

Re: H-1B draft with proposed changes [pdf]

#48

Post by usernametbd »

praneshp wrote: post #25
RobertDeNiro wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that highly illegal?

Highly illegal and HIGHLY common. When my wife moved here (I uprooted her career because of our marriage), she spoke to a few of these people. It was way easier to get an illegal job, and better green card prospects (don't know why).

> I uprooted her career because of our marriage

This is a huge problem by itself. H-4 EAD after I-140 is not enough because that forces you to stay with your current employer until you get your I-140. If you are going to restrict H-1B to highly skilled immigrants, then H-4 EAD should be eligible for any H-1B holder's spouse regardless of I-140 status. Otherwise you are basically saying "we only welcome highly skilled immigrants that are single"

Re: H-1B draft with proposed changes [pdf]

#49

Post by tarikjn »

There are some good things in there, in particular 6. MARKET-BASED H-1B VISA ALLOCATION. However what is missing is a month by month allocation, which would be much more competitive than the existing yearly, April 1st allocation.

If you are in Zoe Lofgren's district, please send her comments here: https://lofgren.house.gov/contact/

Re: H-1B draft with proposed changes [pdf]

#50

Post by yazaddaruvala »

dragonwriter wrote: post #27
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By definition, increasing barriers to entry, drives supply down. Holding demand constant, and assuming price elasticity: Lowering supply, increases "prices" (in this case salaries). Assumption, demand is constant: I'm talking about demand in the economic sense, i.e. The demand curve. The demand curve is left unchanged by this bill. i.e. We still need the same number of software developers, and for any $X/person compa…

> The demand curve is left unchanged by this bill Globally, sure, but the global supply of labor in any field isn't changed, only the US supply. In many cases, H-1B work isn't extremely location-sensitive, and foreign suppliers are acceptable substitutes to local suppliers. To the extent this is true in any field, the effect of restricting visa supply is to offshore more work.

Great point! I did not address the global talent pool, I only considered the US as a closed system.

That is because I disagree with: "In many cases, H-1B work isn't extremely location-sensitive, and foreign suppliers are acceptable substitutes to local suppliers"

For an H-1B, US companies go out of their way to recruit remote talent, pay legal fees, take on risk, to get a talented worker to come work in the US.

For a significantly reduced cost to employer, they could have recruited that same worker in their country of origin, and pay them for working in their country of origin.

If H-1B work is location in-sensitive as you suggest, why do for-profit companies, take on additional costs, risks, and pay higher wages for the same talent?

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