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I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

blog.codinghorror.com

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Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#41

Post by pjc50 »

MisterWebz wrote: post #8

Bombing predominately Muslim countries, overthrowing governments and covert black sites where Muslims get tortured. These are things that are acceptable, but a 90-day ban on immigrants coming from war-torn countries, that's a step too far? Has everyone seriously lost their mind?

Note that, due to the two-party system, complaining about bad Democrat policy on these issues was always somewhat muted at elections because the likely alternative wasn't some better Democrat but a Republican with a far worse policy. Which is pretty much exactly what's happened.

(The same applies to British politics: yes, the Labour party were wrong over the Iraq war, but does anyone think the Conservative party were in the right, or would have been less keen to support the US in that situation? Especially given the May-Trump summit.)

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#42

Post by rtpg »

One thing that might be missing from this action plan is "get into local action".

If you vote Democrat, there were many uncontested republican seats that voted Clinton. The Democratic party has had its foundation fall out, and its mostly because the local-level stuff has fallen completely by the wayside.

Hell, you can even just run for office in 2018. All the DNC chair candidates agree that there are not enough people offering to run on the Dem ticket for congress (hence uncontested seats).

If you want to be third party, start trying to win local elections. There too, maybe you can present yourself. If 5 people from a third party got into congress through the house, that'd be a big deal. Best way to do that? Concentrated local efforts.

Also, state legislatures are important! Look at California

Just like gov't is more than once every 4 years, government is not just the presidency, or just federal. Every level matters.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#43

Post by EdSharkey »

aedron wrote: post #5

You know what a lot of people consider worse than Donald Trump? The status quo. That's what I feel is missing in all this indignation - where were you before? The political system has been deeply broken for decades, with the same unjust policies being pursued regardless of which public face was on it - imperialist militaristic foreign policies abroad, economic inequality at home. All sold to the public with glib mark…

Yes, the unsustainable, burned-out status quo. The last administration could create conflict, but couldn't eke out even modest support for a new ground war in Syria.

The elderly Democratic party has no bench and the same old message. The Republican party has a massive spending problem and too many hawks. Even with a system rigged for the status quo, Trump was able to win. That's what I mean by unsustainable - people chose the deeply flawed naysayer over the alternatives.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#44

Post by MagnumOpus »

thecopy wrote: post #30
wingerlang wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, but it is still not a literal ban is it? I repeat my statement as a question: as a muslim from e.g. Malaysia, you can still enter US - right?

Yes, you can. Trump activated a policy invented and signed into law by Obama, he did not choose the countries himself.

Sorry, you fell for an "alternative fact".

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#45

Post by ionised »

MisterWebz wrote: post #23
varjag wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are arguing strawman. Most people who are anti-ban were also against Iraq war and waterboarding.

Yet people seemed to be awfully calm when Obama was droning weddings. I'm not saying we should've put so much hate towards Obama as well, I'm saying we should put things into perspective.

You were listening to wrong people.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#46

Post by rtpg »

redsummer wrote: post #37

This is hysteria. "he signed an executive order that literally, not figuratively, banned Muslims from entering the US" Of the 10 countries with the largest Muslim populations, only one - Iran - has been restricted: http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/muslims/pf_15-04-02_proje... The list of countries was previously drawn up by the Obama administration. I'm not in favor of the restrictions, but there is no need to make…

- It was a ban of people from 7 muslim-dominated countries

- It excepts non-Muslims (religious test)

- It includes dual-citizens, and permanent residents. Even when you become the citizen of another country, you're still tainted according to the EO. Even when you've been vetted for the green card, you're still tainted.

- Guiliani is on the record that Trump said "I want a Muslim ban" and this was drafted to be the "most legal" way to do this, and a compromise from "ban all people from all muslim countries"

- There is no correlation between the list of countries and terrorist attacks on US soil. None of these country's citizens have contributed to attacks in over 40 years. Imagine England banning Irish citizens for the IRA.

Trump called for a Muslim ban over the campaign, asked for it as president, Guiliani gave what he thought to be a muslim ban, no other executive office seemed to give input. Not sure what else this could be but a muslim ban.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#47

Post by XzetaU8 »

dredmorbius wrote: post #31
YarickR wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where's 8 year long trail of posts shaming and blaming previous administration and personally pres. Obama for those actions ? I see hypocrisy reigning supreme since Jan 20, from both sides.

Four pages of results right here on HN: https://hn.algolia.com/?query="drone%20strikes"&sort=byPopul...

Four pages of mostly zero comment threads.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#48

Post by Quarrelsome »

aswerty wrote: post #14

This is the second political post I've seen sky rocket on HN this morning. I assume a mod intervened on the last one since it disappeared rather quickly. Do we really want to start political discussions in HN? Politics creates enough friction between people in real life let alone discussions with strangers over the internet.

ye, this place is for talking about tech or problems and solutions to problems. This is just soapboxing.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#49

Post by gcp »

aswerty wrote: post #14

This is the second political post I've seen sky rocket on HN this morning. I assume a mod intervened on the last one since it disappeared rather quickly. Do we really want to start political discussions in HN? Politics creates enough friction between people in real life let alone discussions with strangers over the internet.

HN has been full of political and sociological discussion forever.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#50

Post by [deleted] »

redsummer wrote: post #37

This is hysteria. "he signed an executive order that literally, not figuratively, banned Muslims from entering the US" Of the 10 countries with the largest Muslim populations, only one - Iran - has been restricted: http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/muslims/pf_15-04-02_proje... The list of countries was previously drawn up by the Obama administration. I'm not in favor of the restrictions, but there is no need to make…

[deleted]
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