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Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

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Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#41

Post by vonklaus »

elorant wrote: post #31
echelon wrote: post #13

How much longer do you all think Oracle will be around as a company? They burned all bridges with engineers long ago, and they're not going to be able to keep selling their blatant and expensive lock-in strategy to management. Maybe when they finally do go under Google will be able to buy Java and MySQL...

I don't think you realize how the enterprise ecosystem works. There are legacy Cobol systems scattered all around the place. Corporations stick with their platforms for decades. This isn't the web development front where we change platform every couple of years. In corporations change is slow because there are significant sums of money invested in people and procedures. You just don't change that for the next flashy…

> the future for Oracle is much more promising that[sic] it is for Google or Apple.

That is a bold statement. Google has ~1/3 of the world who have access to the internet as regular users. Apple is a hardware maker with a very desirable array of products. I won't say I am a fan of Oracle, and I agree with you on how the lifecycle of enterprise adoption works, but that is a very far fetched conclusion.

First, large companies need to adapt quicker; while this has always been the case, the pace is accelerating. As pointed out above, Oracle has done some shit to alienate a lot of people, and have been for a while.

New companies grow up to be "enterprise". While they ard gouging and alienating their current customers and potential employees, people are NOT building on Oracle. They aren't being locked in.

As old companies (or their management) retire Oracle will have adoption rates like cobol. I am not saying tomorrow, nor this year, but Oracle is going to make big changes or see their MRR fade out with the salesy slicks who brought them on board 2 decades ago.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#42

Post by NeutronBoy »

raverbashing wrote: post #22
rosser wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing you need to understand about Oracle is that it's never — well, never in my experience, and I've worked as a DBA (mostly postgres, but I have had my hands on some Oracle) for a decade now — chosen by the technologists. It's chosen by management. Usually non-technical management. Often dangerously so. But Oracle support basically doesn't answer the phone unless you're regularly cutting them six-figure checks,…

Engineers need to learn how to stand their ground

In an Enterprise, you almost never buy 'a database'. There's a solution/application that you buy, that will have a supported DB backed (usually Oracle or MSSQL). That solution is mostly picked on business capabilities and functionality. The technical component is only one aspect of the requirements, which cover business capabilities/features, technical fit within existing environment, data migration/compatibility, vendor support, vendor credentials, the amount of training required, the amount of business change needed, etc.

These projects often cost $10m+, once you factor in the technical implementation and integration, business process changes, training for business staff, training for IT staff, transition costs, etc.

So if you want to argue that the business should get the solution that fits their requirements the second best, because the 'best' one has an Oracle backend, you had better come up with a shit-hot reason that can't be solved with 'hire a couple of Oracle engineers'.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#43

Post by gumaflux »

djhworld wrote: post #23
echelon wrote: post #13

How much longer do you all think Oracle will be around as a company? They burned all bridges with engineers long ago, and they're not going to be able to keep selling their blatant and expensive lock-in strategy to management. Maybe when they finally do go under Google will be able to buy Java and MySQL...

Many years. I've had two jobs in the past that have been in Oracle shops and from my experience those companies were so fully invested in a lot of the Oracle suite (think WebLogic, ESB, the database etc) it would be like turning a huge oil tanker around to pivot away from it. And don't forget the reams of PL/SQL that often sits at the core of a lot of business logic

Until external forces turn these monoliths into heavy liabilities and block adaptability.

Another important factor is today's engineers are tomorrows architects.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#44

Post by CaliforniaKarl »

pallopiipaeri wrote: post #21
rosser wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Postgres has two-phase commit, which can be used at the application level to implement distributed transactions. It does not have multi-master replication natively, though there are companion projects that enable it.

Unfortunately those are blocker level issues for most enterprisey IT managements. Adding extra implementation to application, to do the database's work against the usual division of labor, no thanks. And bringing some shady 3rd party support package on top of the database is a second really big no. For businesses only what you get out of the box counts. Otherwise you can always state that "the platform has C++ compil…

Vouching parent comment. The last time I looked at Postgres, I was really happy to see that BDR was now doable without a patched Postgres. But, I believe transactions affecting multiple tables didn't fully work yet.

Postgres is my preference over MySQL/MariaDB, but I wouldn't have pushed for it back when I worked in traditional corporate IT: Stability, and having a third-party to blame, really wins there!

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#45

Post by chenster »

elorant wrote: post #31
echelon wrote: post #13

How much longer do you all think Oracle will be around as a company? They burned all bridges with engineers long ago, and they're not going to be able to keep selling their blatant and expensive lock-in strategy to management. Maybe when they finally do go under Google will be able to buy Java and MySQL...

I don't think you realize how the enterprise ecosystem works. There are legacy Cobol systems scattered all around the place. Corporations stick with their platforms for decades. This isn't the web development front where we change platform every couple of years. In corporations change is slow because there are significant sums of money invested in people and procedures. You just don't change that for the next flashy…

> corporations change is slow because there are significant sums of money invested in people and procedures.

That said, IBM DB2 is very much in the same boat.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#46

Post by oblio »

chx wrote: post #33
brad0 wrote: post #3

Is support the only reason people choose Oracle databases over something free like MySQL or Postgres?

It's not support, it's blame. When the fertilizer hits the circular air moving device someone needs to be the scapegoat. And believe me, the CIO is not going to be the one. There isn't an entity to point to if you run MySQL or PostgreSQL.

Both MySQL and PostgreSQL have commercial entities backing them. Funnily enough, MySQL's is also Oracle.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#47

Post by fauigerzigerk »

elorant wrote: post #31
echelon wrote: post #13

How much longer do you all think Oracle will be around as a company? They burned all bridges with engineers long ago, and they're not going to be able to keep selling their blatant and expensive lock-in strategy to management. Maybe when they finally do go under Google will be able to buy Java and MySQL...

I don't think you realize how the enterprise ecosystem works. There are legacy Cobol systems scattered all around the place. Corporations stick with their platforms for decades. This isn't the web development front where we change platform every couple of years. In corporations change is slow because there are significant sums of money invested in people and procedures. You just don't change that for the next flashy…

True, but I think you may be underestimating the need for a public company to grow in order to survive in its current form.

Relentlessly squeezing existing customers that have no way out will only get you so far.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#48

Post by webreac »

I think that a key explanation of Oracle success is that the complexity of their database administration has created a generation of full time jobs: DBA. These people are like salesman working for Oracle to defend the future of their job. They are well paid, but this cost nothing to Oracle. At the opposite, Oracle can sell training.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#49

Post by tluyben2 »

elorant wrote: post #31
echelon wrote: post #13

How much longer do you all think Oracle will be around as a company? They burned all bridges with engineers long ago, and they're not going to be able to keep selling their blatant and expensive lock-in strategy to management. Maybe when they finally do go under Google will be able to buy Java and MySQL...

I don't think you realize how the enterprise ecosystem works. There are legacy Cobol systems scattered all around the place. Corporations stick with their platforms for decades. This isn't the web development front where we change platform every couple of years. In corporations change is slow because there are significant sums of money invested in people and procedures. You just don't change that for the next flashy…

I think you overestimate how often most companies changes their web fronts.
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