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Neocities: Free, modern Geocities reboot

neocities.org

41–50 of 103 posts

Re: Neocities: Free, modern Geocities reboot

#41

Hi! I started Neocities. I read HN regularly. Neocities was actually launched and bootstrapped on HN about 3 years ago, and donations from HN users bankrolled the first year of operating it. Things have been going really well, the site is growing and still sustains it's own existence through donations and supporter accounts. I still work on the site heavily. We're launching some big features soon (more space, Github…

Please share the anycast implementation story. Would love to know how you implemented on the cheap.

Re: Neocities: Free, modern Geocities reboot

#42

Hi! I started Neocities. I read HN regularly. Neocities was actually launched and bootstrapped on HN about 3 years ago, and donations from HN users bankrolled the first year of operating it. Things have been going really well, the site is growing and still sustains it's own existence through donations and supporter accounts. I still work on the site heavily. We're launching some big features soon (more space, Github…

Kyle, I wonder if you had any trouble or how much trouble you had with some kind of abuse (spam etc.) or DMCA in those three years.

I'm very happy this project is still going strong!

Re: Neocities: Free, modern Geocities reboot

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much does hosting costs you at this moment?

Just servers, about $550/mo once we launch the new infrastructure. That doesn't include the $10k I had to sink in to buy the equipment and IP addresses. Then pad the bill a lot of misc other nonsense: social media liability insurance (yes this is a thing), ARIN fees, LLC registration, a literal fax machine (for DMCA compliance), monitoring, etc. Grand total will hover around $1000. Architecture is a core + CDN model.…

It's interesting to realize someone can do this for about $0.01/site/month. It makes one ask the question "just why do we need ads for social networks"?

Re: Neocities: Free, modern Geocities reboot

#45
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just servers, about $550/mo once we launch the new infrastructure. That doesn't include the $10k I had to sink in to buy the equipment and IP addresses. Then pad the bill a lot of misc other nonsense: social media liability insurance (yes this is a thing), ARIN fees, LLC registration, a literal fax machine (for DMCA compliance), monitoring, etc. Grand total will hover around $1000. Architecture is a core + CDN model.…

Are you confident about the current donation model? (I understand/appreciate that it's not a business) I just want to make sure sites can stay up before I start recommending this to friends' kids.

They let you download the whole site as a .zip.

Any webhost (paid or not) can disappear overnight, so it's generally a good practice to keep two or three copies of the source code of any website (one at a home computer, one on GitHub or something).

Besides, aren't kids into the whole ephemeral thing now (Snapchat and the like)?

Re: Neocities: Free, modern Geocities reboot

#46

Hi! I started Neocities. I read HN regularly. Neocities was actually launched and bootstrapped on HN about 3 years ago, and donations from HN users bankrolled the first year of operating it. Things have been going really well, the site is growing and still sustains it's own existence through donations and supporter accounts. I still work on the site heavily. We're launching some big features soon (more space, Github…

Kyle, I wonder if you had any trouble or how much trouble you had with some kind of abuse (spam etc.) or DMCA in those three years. I'm very happy this project is still going strong!

We get a small amount of SEO pagerank garbage and phishing attacks (most of which don't actually work because we don't support HTTP POST). We have user reporting and detection code that catches basically all of it, the scammers get sick of getting banned within a few hours (on average) and leave to find a host that's... not as good at this.

Our policy is to remove phishing and spam and report it to stop spam services. The major reason for this is that I want to keep our nose clean for pagerank purposes. I don't want Google to decide we're just a garbage dump and dock all our sites in search results. I surmise (rather, I hope) that our pages have a much higher rank than many other free hosting providers (and even some major social networks) because we work so hard to be proactive on this problem.

I wish Google provided better resources for this than they currently do. I'd love an API to report SEO pagerank spam, for example. Right now I have to do it manually with a form.

Abuse was not a reason, it was the reason we ended up rolling our own anycast CDN with our own ASN (https://whois.arin.net/rest/asn/AS395409). Abuse reporting goes to whomever owns the IP address, so our hosting providers would get these complaints. There was a real concern we would lose our hosting providers. The important thing to understand is that most hosting providers think you're just running a Wordpress blog, so if there's an abuse complaint they just think your blog got hacked and treat you accordingly. If you want to be an ISP, learn BGP, the cloud will not save you.

We don't get many DMCA takedowns, it's usually something really dumb and arbitrary. One of the reasons for this is probably that we blacklist certain types of file formats (such as videos and mp3s). The idea with Neocities is to use it to make web sites, so for free sites, we only allow file types useful for making web sites. Supporter accounts are not subject to these restrictions.

We used to get more classic spam (porn, "dick pillz", etc.) but not as much these days because it isn't as effective. That spam tended to hover around whatever social ill Americans were experiencing. For example, before the Affordable Healthcare Act kicked in, we got a lot of online pharmacy drugstore spam preying on people that couldn't afford their medicine. It might come back if they start dismantling the ACA.

As for comment spam (for the main site), we have strict requirements to allow commenting. You have to wait a week, make a site, update it at least a few times, and do some other specific things before you can comment.

That's not only helped with spam, it's also helped to deal with jerks. It's hard to stay mad enough at something to wait a week while engaging in psychological sublimation, just to leave a turd on someone's site profile at the end of it.

Re: Neocities: Free, modern Geocities reboot

#47

Hi! I started Neocities. I read HN regularly. Neocities was actually launched and bootstrapped on HN about 3 years ago, and donations from HN users bankrolled the first year of operating it. Things have been going really well, the site is growing and still sustains it's own existence through donations and supporter accounts. I still work on the site heavily. We're launching some big features soon (more space, Github…

Kyle, I wonder if you had any trouble or how much trouble you had with some kind of abuse (spam etc.) or DMCA in those three years. I'm very happy this project is still going strong!

As far as DMCA issues, I'm sure it helps that free accounts can only upload a limited set of filetypes. MP3s, MP4s, EPUBs, PDFs, ZIPs, etc. are all only allowed with paid ($5/mo) "supporter" accounts, which is a much easier game of whack-a-mole than trying to keep free users from signing up for a new account after you ban them.

Re: Neocities: Free, modern Geocities reboot

#48
post #16
post #2

Original discussion from Neocities' launch: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5918724 Personally, I don't have any reason to use Neocities but I am enormously happy that it exists. Geocities and Angelfire and all of those weird web sandboxes are where I first wrote code, and what led me to pursue software engineering as a career.

I taught myself HTML from a children's book(!) and Geocities hosted my first amateur website; I miss it still. I liked that there was an option for hand-coding your HTML rather than use a website builder, an option most free hosts don't now have. I am very grateful for Neocities!

Same here... except it was (Free)webs. Back then, they let you code your own pages as long as you put a little banner that had their logo on it somewhere on each page. Don't know if they do anything like that anymore.

Re: Neocities: Free, modern Geocities reboot

#50

Hi! I started Neocities. I read HN regularly. Neocities was actually launched and bootstrapped on HN about 3 years ago, and donations from HN users bankrolled the first year of operating it. Things have been going really well, the site is growing and still sustains it's own existence through donations and supporter accounts. I still work on the site heavily. We're launching some big features soon (more space, Github…

I was just talking about this at lunch, by really weird coincidence. You were leading the funniest GitHub pull request I've ever taken part in. It went something like this:

Me: "I've created a PR to allow .cur and .mid files, like the good ol' days."

You: "Wtf is a .cur?"

Person 2: "It's windows cursor format."

You: "(many paragraphs, tl;dr: Sorry, but we're not recreating Geocities.)"

~ one year later ~

You: "I caved. I've merged, sorry for being a dick."

After so long, I'd completely forgotten about the PR and found it hilarious that you eventually merged my PR. I'm happy to see things continue forward :D

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