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How Self-Driving Cars Work

nytimes.com

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Re: How Self-Driving Cars Work

#41
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing professional level with world champion level. How many megajoules will it take to create a world champion Go player using the human brain? It would take multiple brains, each teaching each other. We can now train a professional-level Go player pretty cheaply — Zen Go plays at a professional level and runs on commodity hardware.

I did not actually. I pointed out the approx energy required to get to 1 dan professional then pointed out that a system trained with orders of magnitude more energy was still far less capable. To get to Lee Sedol is still To say AlphaGo or any RL system is learning from self-play is not in the typical understanding of the phrase. It's more akin to evolving with competitions against previous versions of itself, which…

As I said in my previous post, you ignored that a machine gets to 1 dan professional far more cheaply.

The reason I noted the requirement of other trained professionals for training a human is that those other humans can distill what they have learned over years of play into simple rules. The machine can also use those rules, but the particular machine you are comparing to was specifically trained without any such rules and was required to synthesize them from scratch from historical games and self-play.

Re: How Self-Driving Cars Work

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that is a ridiculous comparison. Then you should start counting the energy required to construct the Google server farm, the energy of all the computers used by all the engineers who built the farm while they were in university, on and on and on.

Now you're suggesting calculating the energy used by the human champion's ancestors, which I am not suggesting. The computer can train itself with just records of past games and self-play. The world champion level human cannot. You must account for the difference in training.

No, the computer can't. The computer was itself trained/programmed by humans.

Re: How Self-Driving Cars Work

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you're suggesting calculating the energy used by the human champion's ancestors, which I am not suggesting. The computer can train itself with just records of past games and self-play. The world champion level human cannot. You must account for the difference in training.

No, the computer can't. The computer was itself trained/programmed by humans.

It was programmed by humans who didn't program in any rules of thumb or patterns for playing Go. The computer synthesized all it needed to understand about how to win at the game from historical games and self-play. The human champion synthesized only some patterns himself and learned most of them from other professional human players.
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