The Google design, turned up a notch • Hacker News Board

Re: The Google design, turned up a notch

#41

Post by qeorge » Fri, May 07, 2010, 5:20 AM UTC

bbatsell wrote: post #9

supaflyhigh wrote: post #8

I find the sidebar annoying, but perhaps more so because we have used google without it for so long. I tend to agree with techcrunch that there is redundancy in the side and top bar. New logo is good, search box is ok...but this modern style of it and the buttons seems out of place and more distracting then anything. The search features on the side are nice...but I used them so rarely in the past and don't see myself…

I use the time-based filtering all the time now. I didn't really expect to when I first started in the beta. It's incredibly helpful when searching on topics that undergo wholesale changes often (e.g. the vast majority of technology). Without using the filtering I get frustrated with Google results with high PR that end up being horribly outdated.

I also use the time based filtering a lot.

For example, if I want to see a recent Obama speech I missed. Its nearly impossible to find the one you want without time-based filtering.

Re: The Google design, turned up a notch

#42

Post by _delirium » Fri, May 07, 2010, 5:23 AM UTC

bbatsell wrote: post #9

supaflyhigh wrote: post #8

I find the sidebar annoying, but perhaps more so because we have used google without it for so long. I tend to agree with techcrunch that there is redundancy in the side and top bar. New logo is good, search box is ok...but this modern style of it and the buttons seems out of place and more distracting then anything. The search features on the side are nice...but I used them so rarely in the past and don't see myself…

I use the time-based filtering all the time now. I didn't really expect to when I first started in the beta. It's incredibly helpful when searching on topics that undergo wholesale changes often (e.g. the vast majority of technology). Without using the filtering I get frustrated with Google results with high PR that end up being horribly outdated.

I've been using it for the opposite reason: I'll see something in a news story and want to search on it for some background, and all I get are 500 copies of the same news story or commentary on it. Being able to exclude anything from the past week or so makes it easier to filter all those out. It is slightly more awkward to use it that way UI-wise, though: there are quick links to press for "last X hours/days/etc.", but no quick way to get "older than X" without typing stuff into the "custom range" thing.

Re: The Google design, turned up a notch

#43

Post by pg » Fri, May 07, 2010, 5:32 AM UTC

The reason the new design is so much worse is that it uses the most valuable space on the screen, the left side (since we read left to right), for stuff users don't care much about. What users care about most on a page of search results is the search results. Those should get priority. Instead the prime space is given to stuff that's boilerplate, or only tangentially relevant, or both.

I'm surprised Google would make a mistake of such magnitude. Anyone who's read Tufte would know not to do this. They've effectively reduced the data-ink ratio of the page, when you weight each pixel by its proximity to the upper left corner.

http://www.infovis-wiki.net/index.php/Data-Ink_Ratio

http://inspiredimpressions.files.wordpress.com/2006/04/Googl...

Oddly enough, it would actually be better if the left bar were entirely boilerplate, because that would make it easier to tune it out.

http://www.useit.com/eyetracking/eyetracking_corporate_site_...

Then the new design would merely waste space. Filling the left side of the page not merely with crap, but with changing crap, is the worst case scenario.

Re: The Google design, turned up a notch

#44

Post by johnrob » Fri, May 07, 2010, 6:06 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #43

The reason the new design is so much worse is that it uses the most valuable space on the screen, the left side (since we read left to right), for stuff users don't care much about. What users care about most on a page of search results is the search results. Those should get priority. Instead the prime space is given to stuff that's boilerplate, or only tangentially relevant, or both. I'm surprised Google would make…

Does anyone know how to get rid of this new left bar?

Re: The Google design, turned up a notch

#45

Post by jmulder » Fri, May 07, 2010, 6:31 AM UTC

pavs wrote: post #17

jmulder wrote: post #13

The biggest change in their redesign has nothing to do with the new logo, redundancy in navigation (because that can't be an issue) or making the different search tools more discoverable. The biggest change is the top left position of the first search result relative to the top left position of the document. In other words, the average scanning pattern has completely changed with the addition of a fixed side bar. It…

> It's not unlikely to assume Google is very willing to take a slight hit in this area What hit are you talking about? Are people willing to leave Google to use another search engine and get used to their UI?. Unless they royally screw up with the design (which they didn't IMO) they have almost nothing to lose. If you compare this with bing, you will see that they have a lot of similarities.

A hit in efficiency of the user when scanning the search results.

And you're right. People won't leave Google over this. But Google has done extensive testing on page speed in the past and measured its long term impact on pageviews per search. I'd argue that a change in scanning patterns like this one affects the perception of speed of the interface and might impact the aforementioned metric.

Overall, it should be a change for the better and i'm sure that Google wants to increase the efficiency per search to increase the overal number of unique searches a user might do -- while caring a bit less about the number of pageviews per search.

As for Bing, in interface design for a company like Google --a company that effectively dominates the market and sees marginal loss of users-- the competition is irrelevant. Especially for simple UI changes such as this one.

When doing a change such as this one Google is its own competitor. It needs to find a way to transition their user's habits to what they believe is a more usable one. This is by far always the hardest part and really what we are discussing right now :-)

It's awesome to see though. I'd imagine it's incredbily hard to convince a board of such changes, especially in an engineering minded company such as Google.

Re: The Google design, turned up a notch

#46

Post by samratjp » Fri, May 07, 2010, 6:41 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #43

The reason the new design is so much worse is that it uses the most valuable space on the screen, the left side (since we read left to right), for stuff users don't care much about. What users care about most on a page of search results is the search results. Those should get priority. Instead the prime space is given to stuff that's boilerplate, or only tangentially relevant, or both. I'm surprised Google would make…

I hate the left bar! Perhaps the biggest reason I never felt home with Bing, Yahoo or etc. was because of the extraneous crap (I don't need pretty pictures on my search engine homepage). Google just felt right because it was minimal yet functional and just straight on hard on the pedal fast. Sure, it is just as fast now, but it's amazing how a slight "improvement" like this has actually changed my perception of the search results being slower because it takes me a good second to realign my focus to the right.

And please infovis-wiki, that criticism with just Inbar et al. seems pretty lame (their subjects were 87 students - not a good sample at all for something about perception!)

Re: The Google design, turned up a notch

#47

Post by plinkplonk » Fri, May 07, 2010, 6:45 AM UTC

johnrob wrote: post #44

pg wrote: post #43

The reason the new design is so much worse is that it uses the most valuable space on the screen, the left side (since we read left to right), for stuff users don't care much about. What users care about most on a page of search results is the search results. Those should get priority. Instead the prime space is given to stuff that's boilerplate, or only tangentially relevant, or both. I'm surprised Google would make…

Does anyone know how to get rid of this new left bar?

"Does anyone know how to get rid of this new left bar?"

A couple of ways to do it.

(1) On Firefox install the stylish plug in (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2108/). Then go to http://userstyles.org/styles/29418 and install the style.

After installation, if you are not using google.com(say google.ca or google.co.in), edit the css (left click on icon at bottom right, select manage, select the style edit) to reflect whatever google engine you are using.

(2)In Chrome the Hide Google Options addon works perfectly (http://www.seotools.com/hide-google-options/#Chrome). There is a firefox equivalent but for some reason it didn't work for me so I went with the above (stylish) option on FF.

No idea about any other browser. Sorry. But I guess there is always GreaseMonkey?

Re: The Google design, turned up a notch

#48

Post by gruseom » Fri, May 07, 2010, 6:49 AM UTC

abstractbill wrote: post #7

we tried to take all the things we strive for at Google and make them better: powerful technology, snappy results, simplicity and a fun and quirky personality Yes! This is totally what was missing for me. I had great search results from Google every time, but where was the fun ? Where was the quirky personality damn it?

You make an interesting observation amid that sarcasm. Google's persona may be fun (in some ways, sort of, I guess), but their products are not. At their best, they're unobtrusive, minimal, and super functional. That's much better than "fun". The stuff people produce when they're striving to make something "fun" doesn't wear well.

One other thing Google have been good at in the past is rolling back mistakes. I bet this one doesn't last long.

Re: The Google design, turned up a notch

#49

Post by j00lz » Fri, May 07, 2010, 6:54 AM UTC

As screens are now coming in a wider format i.e 16:9, there is generally a large amount of wasted space at the sides in a lot of webpages. Adding the sidebar is making better use of that space.

Re: The Google design, turned up a notch

#50

Post by ugh » Fri, May 07, 2010, 6:59 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #43

The reason the new design is so much worse is that it uses the most valuable space on the screen, the left side (since we read left to right), for stuff users don't care much about. What users care about most on a page of search results is the search results. Those should get priority. Instead the prime space is given to stuff that's boilerplate, or only tangentially relevant, or both. I'm surprised Google would make…

Google actually tested this, you didn’t. So while the reasons you listed might be valid and a good reason to scrutinize the redesign with the literature in mind, I have a very hard time believing that Google didn’t do just that.

I would argue that there are consequently very good reasons to believe that the problems you described are not a issue with the redesign or that there are certain advantages to the redesign which make up for other disadvantages.