I know this is a bit off topic but is there anything to read about how to implement a microkernel? Like a real booting system for x86.
This is the best source of OS development info/tutorials: http://wiki.osdev.org/Main_Page
GNU Hurd 0.9, GNU Mach 1.8, GNU MIG 1.8 Released
41–50 of 66 posts
Re: GNU Hurd 0.9, GNU Mach 1.8, GNU MIG 1.8 Released
#42I remember installing Hurd on actual hardware back in 1996[1] and I as far as I can recall, it was quite interesting to use. Since then, on regular intervals[2] I've attempted to install the most recent version, but I have failed every single time[3]. I'm also noting that Hurd is still only 32-bit. Is there actually a plan to make this into a system that can actually be used? Exactly what is it about the Hurd project…
Basically Linux and then BSD took all the wind out of Hurds sails. A lot of that was timing, and also because those projects were much more attractive to big business who put a tremendous amount of development resources behind them. As far as I know QNX is the only usable OS based on a microkernel.
Quite a few embedded OSes are microkernels, L4 being one of them.
Re: GNU Hurd 0.9, GNU Mach 1.8, GNU MIG 1.8 Released
#43Good thoughts about GNU Hurd https://www.reddit.com/r/hurd/comments/273tij/hurd_the_minix....
Re: GNU Hurd 0.9, GNU Mach 1.8, GNU MIG 1.8 Released
#44I remember installing Hurd on actual hardware back in 1996[1] and I as far as I can recall, it was quite interesting to use. Since then, on regular intervals[2] I've attempted to install the most recent version, but I have failed every single time[3]. I'm also noting that Hurd is still only 32-bit. Is there actually a plan to make this into a system that can actually be used? Exactly what is it about the Hurd project…
Basically Linux and then BSD took all the wind out of Hurds sails. A lot of that was timing, and also because those projects were much more attractive to big business who put a tremendous amount of development resources behind them. As far as I know QNX is the only usable OS based on a microkernel.
Errr... OSX and iOS are also MACH based. I'd call them 'usable' ? :-)
Funny bit is, back in the 90's when Apple bough NeXT, they trashed the NeXT version of MACH and used the one that was in... mklinux instead!
I bet very few people remember that bit. I remember because I had written the framebuffer console driver for mklinux back then, and seeing my init message when booting the earlier version of OSX (So I had the privilege of printing kernel crash logs and panics on zillions of devices! I'm so proud! :-)
Re: GNU Hurd 0.9, GNU Mach 1.8, GNU MIG 1.8 Released
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fair point. However, there will never be AGP or IDE for it. In fact there is no hardware with PCI and RISC V and may never be. My point is that they could solve the "what hardware do we support" problem by porting to architecture that doesn't have any hardware yet ;-) it would be gamble on an arch...
Do modern motherboards even still ship with AGP and IDE? I thought those were on a death march almost a decade ago.
You can still get mainboards for modern CPUs (e.g. Intel Skylake) with PCI slots. Not sure how they work internally, e.g. if there is a PCIe bridge and if yes on what level PCI emulation happens.
Re: GNU Hurd 0.9, GNU Mach 1.8, GNU MIG 1.8 Released
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Basically Linux and then BSD took all the wind out of Hurds sails. A lot of that was timing, and also because those projects were much more attractive to big business who put a tremendous amount of development resources behind them. As far as I know QNX is the only usable OS based on a microkernel.
Errr... OSX and iOS are also MACH based. I'd call them 'usable' ? :-) Funny bit is, back in the 90's when Apple bough NeXT, they trashed the NeXT version of MACH and used the one that was in... mklinux instead! I bet very few people remember that bit. I remember because I had written the framebuffer console driver for mklinux back then, and seeing my init message when booting the earlier version of OSX ( So I had the…
It's classed as a hybrid though, not a pure microkernel. There's significant amounts of BSD in there.
Also, thanks for the anecdote :)
Re: GNU Hurd 0.9, GNU Mach 1.8, GNU MIG 1.8 Released
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do modern motherboards even still ship with AGP and IDE? I thought those were on a death march almost a decade ago.
You can still get mainboards for modern CPUs (e.g. Intel Skylake) with PCI slots. Not sure how they work internally, e.g. if there is a PCIe bridge and if yes on what level PCI emulation happens.
PCI is a CPU-independent bus (unlike AT/ISA), it isn't really emulated, rather, there's a host bridge on these mainboards that connect it to PCIe from the CPU or southbridge.
Re: GNU Hurd 0.9, GNU Mach 1.8, GNU MIG 1.8 Released
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Device drivers don't execute on the device. They execute on the CPU, instructing the OS how to use the device. So device drivers do need to support both the CPU architecture and the OS platform.
Not when they are open source...
True. Despite spending the majority of my working and personal life buried neck deep in open source, for someone reason I forgot we weren't talking about source code here and commented about the distribution of the resulting kernel modules.
@OP: Sorry for the correction. I blame my cold for the poor reasoning on my part hehe.
Re: GNU Hurd 0.9, GNU Mach 1.8, GNU MIG 1.8 Released
#49The changelog is so small... Can someone explain why do we need this? Why would we want to use it?
The niceness of the Hurd design, conceptually, is that the microkernel orchestrates system integrity, while even an unprivileged user has a lot of freedom as to what to run on top of that. They can launch drivers, file systems, run sandboxed kernels, and so forth.
Re: GNU Hurd 0.9, GNU Mach 1.8, GNU MIG 1.8 Released
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Basically Linux and then BSD took all the wind out of Hurds sails. A lot of that was timing, and also because those projects were much more attractive to big business who put a tremendous amount of development resources behind them. As far as I know QNX is the only usable OS based on a microkernel.
Quite a few embedded OSes are microkernels, L4 being one of them.
Interestingly L4 is being used to power the secure enclave on iOS devices so it's probably the most distributed microkernel.