Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Linux on the Mac – state of the union

lwn.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 142 posts

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#41

Post by drvdevd »

coldtea wrote: post #36
wyclif wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was then. But now that Apple does know that the MBP is perceived as dev-friendly, based on the type of people in that market segment that buy them, why would they let that slice of the market go?

Who said that slice of the market will go? Complainers are always amplified on the internet. Check back in 2 years.

True. But they do seem to have created a niche in the market for someone else to fill, due also to their high markups. Most "developers" don't actually need Macs, many of them just haven't realized it yet.

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#42

Post by rodgerd »

kagamine wrote: post #28
drvdevd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I have experienced that choice on Apple hardware recently (2015 mbp retina), lately Linux seems to, let's say, 95% Just Work on non-apple x86 hardware for me, WLAN, sound, and suspend/resume. [edit] and this is with any distro, perhaps with more or less setup work

I find sleep/resume is successful when the proprietary driver is installed, nouveau isn't doing it doing it for me on Ubuntu derived 16.x distros (this month I have tried KDE Neon and Bodhi). The problem though, is that installing the drivers can be a pain. Last time I tried I soft bricked the PC and ended up doing a full reinstall to save time. As someone further down this thread said, what advantage is there these…

> what advantage is there these days in Nvidia not open-sourcing the drivers?

AMD have demonstrated that trying to do the right thing will get you shit from the maintainers and abuse from bystanders, who will then go and buy Nvidia because it gets a better frame rate.

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#43

Post by wtallis »

rodgerd wrote: post #42
kagamine wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find sleep/resume is successful when the proprietary driver is installed, nouveau isn't doing it doing it for me on Ubuntu derived 16.x distros (this month I have tried KDE Neon and Bodhi). The problem though, is that installing the drivers can be a pain. Last time I tried I soft bricked the PC and ended up doing a full reinstall to save time. As someone further down this thread said, what advantage is there these…

> what advantage is there these days in Nvidia not open-sourcing the drivers? AMD have demonstrated that trying to do the right thing will get you shit from the maintainers and abuse from bystanders, who will then go and buy Nvidia because it gets a better frame rate.

AMD's been in the news for trying to half-ass the right thing, and asking the community to lower their standards because AMD is too poor to do the job right.

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#44

Post by lostboys67 »

rev12 wrote: post #7
ubernostrum wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this is largely based on mythology. People seem to equate "pro user" with "software developer" (and no other roles/occupations at all), and invent a fictitious history in which the Macbook Pro was jumping up and down on stage shouting "DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS!" Except that never happened. The perceived dev-friendliness of the Macbook Pro was a historical accident: it turns out that when you build so…

>>> "Meanwhile, the audio/video-engineer types still seem to like the MBP" I can't speak to the professional video world, but that's absolutely false in the professional audio world. My experience is in the world of composition and sound design; the attitude towards using Mac for that shifted a while back, due to the lackluster and non-existent upgrades to the Mac Pro. No one in the professional audio world that I kn…

I recall senior players (ie work at Air 1, Abby Road etc) in the audio world saying this 5 years ago in sound on sound

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#45

Post by coldtea »

wyclif wrote: post #40
coldtea wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said that slice of the market will go? Complainers are always amplified on the internet. Check back in 2 years.

The perception, as displayed in this thread, is that they are. Plus the overwhelming negativity from developers regarding the new MBP, as seen in numerous HN threads and other tech news stories. I don't really have any stock in whether the perception is a reality or not, so I'm willing to be persuaded. Hopefully in the next iteration the MBP will have at least 32GB RAM, and they will make a move that will please the…

>I don't really have any stock in whether the perception is a reality or not, so I'm willing to be persuaded. Hopefully in the next iteration the MBP will have at least 32GB RAM,

The people lamenting the missing option for 32GB RAM as devastating for pros, never had it in the first place, as the previous generation didn't support 32GB either (and yet, they still worked just fine).

Second, the limitation to 16GB is from Intel, not Apple. Intel didn't have 32GB compatible modules with low energy consumption ready -- and without those, Apple using the energy sucking 32GB option would reduce battery life 20% or more.

Not to mention that the overwhelming majority of PC laptops developers buy don't have 32GB at this point in time either, including the most famous models (XPS etc).

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#46

Post by kagamine »

coldtea wrote: post #34
kagamine wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My employer doesn't let me use my own computer and refuses to buy me one. ? Then what are you using?

Refuses to buy them a Mac obviously. As in "doesn't let me use my own mac and refuses to buy me a mac of his own". So, parent is using the computer the employer doesn't refuse to buy them, a PC.

Now it makes sense. I really wondered.

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#47

Post by CountSessine »

dispose13432 wrote: post #21
WWLink wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't necessarily blame the "WLAN, sound, or sleep" thing on linux. I'd blame that on cheap parts manufacturers that refuse to distribute open source drivers for fear of releasing company secrets and lack of profit margins to operate on.

>I wouldn't necessarily blame the "WLAN, sound, or sleep" thing on linux. I'd blame that on cheap parts manufacturers that refuse to distribute open source drivers for fear of releasing company secrets and lack of profit margins to operate on. I don't understand why would anyone not open-source their drivers? What's NVIDIA's secret sauce? Being able to build great silicon. What's Intel's secret sauce? Being able to b…

What's NVIDIA's secret sauce? Being able to build great silicon.

NVidia's defining characteristic has been designing good drivers.

Even when they've been behind ATI/AMD in hardware, they've been ahead in driver stability and performance. Especially on Linux where they largely own the CG/post/design market (which mostly uses Linux workstations) and they are the only GPU vendor that has somehow squeezed Windows-competitive performance out of Xorg.

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#48

Post by maratc »

The basis of this article makes no sense. What developers love about Macs is the OS and the nice integration between OS and hardware. Even if you hate the new hardware, it makes sense to continue juicing your current one and see what comes along next year; it makes zero sense to install Linux on a fringe hardware (Mac).

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#49

Post by codemusings »

maratc wrote: post #48

The basis of this article makes no sense. What developers love about Macs is the OS and the nice integration between OS and hardware. Even if you hate the new hardware, it makes sense to continue juicing your current one and see what comes along next year; it makes zero sense to install Linux on a fringe hardware (Mac).

I guess it depends on what kind of developers you think of. Unless you're developing macOS or iOS Software why bother with an inferior software eco system? Brew is a hot mess. MacPorts is slow as fuck.

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#50

Post by [deleted] »

maratc wrote: post #48

The basis of this article makes no sense. What developers love about Macs is the OS and the nice integration between OS and hardware. Even if you hate the new hardware, it makes sense to continue juicing your current one and see what comes along next year; it makes zero sense to install Linux on a fringe hardware (Mac).

[deleted]
Post reply on HN