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Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

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Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#41

Post by ThomPete »

Zigurd wrote: post #37
ThomPete wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? How do the uneducated in the rust belt benefit? And perhaps more importantly when? I agree that technology for society in general make us better of over time, but society consists of individuals who don't necessarily benefit from this. In fact 12 million jobs are in danger of being lost to automated cars. How are they going to benefit from that?

I'd guess you got downvoted because that's irrelevant. The benefits come in the form of fewer road deaths, which is potentially as significant as curing malaria, which only in the abstract benefits the people you are talking about, but it nevertheless does benefit them.

Did you read the parent I am replying too?

How is road safety relevant to a discussion about zero sum games?

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#42

Post by EGreg »

How come no one has figured out that these self driving cars can be tested with light soft and fuzzy tops which only look like real cars, so if they crash into something, even at high speed, they wouldn't hurt anyone and couldn't be sued for a lot? They could then skip to testing much more daring maneuvers on higher speed than they would otherwise.

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#43

Post by Zigurd »

ThomPete wrote: post #41
Zigurd wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd guess you got downvoted because that's irrelevant. The benefits come in the form of fewer road deaths, which is potentially as significant as curing malaria, which only in the abstract benefits the people you are talking about, but it nevertheless does benefit them.

Did you read the parent I am replying too? How is road safety relevant to a discussion about zero sum games?

For one, it makes it a non-zero-sum game.

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#44

Post by Retric »

wcummings wrote: post #33
it_learnses wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, agreed. Universal basic income is one solution that keeps coming back as a silver bullet. Not sure what the downsides are yet, but I'm pretty certain that there's still going to be haves and have nots: just a few rich that own all the automation and resources vs the rest of us just surviving on basic income. Maybe we'll all be ok immersed in VR adventures as long as we're fed and clothed...

>Not sure what the downsides are yet It's fantastically expensive.

As a share of the USA's Gross Domestic Product, health spending accounted for 17.5 percent. Single payer systems like Canada are 10.9% and have similar or better health outcomes.

So, ~4.4% GDP is pure healthcare waste. Social Security is 4.9% GDP and welfare is another ~4%. So, right now we could use 13.3% GDP or 7k per person in the US. However, that 7k would remove the justification for a lot of low income tax breaks freeing up enough to hit the 1,000$ per month range without raising net taxes.

Now, this would take a huge shift at the federal and state levels, but compared to say the 'New Deal' it's not actually that large a change in policy. Further, while some people would stay at home, it would also free up a lot of jobs and inefficiency.

The real problem is a small but very influential slice of the population would be worse off.

PS: Remember, every policy change is going to make somebody worse off, so harming someone is not enough to make a change bad.

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#45

Post by finid »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #36
hesdeadjim wrote: post #2

There is so much talk in the current rhetoric about the US losing its dominance in science and technology. But it is a tad myopic to not be excited about a country of a billion people pushing the boundaries of what is possible. It is not a zero sum game and we will all benefit.

Self driving cars are much more valuable to China than the US. China, for all its development, lacks road and parking infrastructure and places to put them even if it was willing to build them. So cities like Beijing are incredibly congested. Likewise, the driving culture in many Chinese cities (all slightly different) is often very bad, it isn't uncommon to see someone back up on a free way because they missed their…

it isn't uncommon to see someone back up on a free way because they missed their exit in Beijing....The US, for the most part, doesn't have these problems

I'm guessing that you haven't driven anywhere near New York City or Boston. I've seen my fair share of drivers backing up or driving on the part of the road they're not supposed to just because they missed their exit. Someone said I've done that myself, but I'll need to see proof.

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#46

Post by goldenbeet »

neves wrote: post #14

Don't forget that they hired the guy behind Google's self driving car, Andrew Ng: http://venturebeat.com/2014/07/30/andrew-ng-baidu/ Does it takes just a hire to compete against all Google's patents?

Andrew Ng wasn't really the brain child of Google's car. That honor goes to Sebastian Thrun.

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#47

Post by goldenbeet »

cuantos wrote: post #11

People who worry about the risk of accidents should also take into account the risk of falling behind technologically and economically. I'd argue that the latter would cause (or fail to prevent) far more deaths. If China wants to lead the world on this then more power to them. Maybe the US will step up their game in response.

People worry about accidents as if we aren't already causing thousands of accidents every single day. SDCs are inevitably going to reduce that danger.

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#48

Post by ThomPete »

nartsbtaa wrote: post #40
ThomPete wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of the horses have jobs today though? :) But sure I agree. That doesen't change that for some people their job is all they have. If you take that away they have no realistic future unless it's some post scarcity society.

> That doesen't change that for some people their job is all they have. If you take that away they have no realistic future unless it's some post scarcity society. This has always been the case throughout history: new technology makes some jobs irrelevant, and humans adapt by doing new jobs. It's unfortunate for people who cannot or will not adapt, but historically people have been resilient to such changes. It's a l…

It hasn't always been the case though.

It's only been the case for around 200 years. Before that the progress was so slow that there was no issues transitioning as most kind of work took generations to change.

The problem is that now things changes so fast that lots of people simply can't re-educate them selves and the market doesn't really need that many people, yet we have no plan what so ever for this issue besides UBI and a hope that technology will allow us to create a post scarcity society. Hourly wages rarely even make sense since thats exactly the kind of jobs that normally could be calculated that way which are going away.

I would really urge anyone who think that technology creates more jobs than it removes to show where those new jobs are besides to the countries we've been outsourcing them too.

But jobs moving to China and India isn't solving the underlying issue and I simply don't understand why people don't take it more seriously and why Luddite fallacy keeps coming up. It's not that good an explanation (not saying you talked about luddite fallacy just in general)

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#49

Post by seanmcdirmid »

finid wrote: post #45
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self driving cars are much more valuable to China than the US. China, for all its development, lacks road and parking infrastructure and places to put them even if it was willing to build them. So cities like Beijing are incredibly congested. Likewise, the driving culture in many Chinese cities (all slightly different) is often very bad, it isn't uncommon to see someone back up on a free way because they missed their…

it isn't uncommon to see someone back up on a free way because they missed their exit in Beijing....The US, for the most part, doesn't have these problems I'm guessing that you haven't driven anywhere near New York City or Boston. I've seen my fair share of drivers backing up or driving on the part of the road they're not supposed to just because they missed their exit. Someone said I've done that myself, but I'll ne…

Sure it "happens", but do you see it on almost all of your commutes? When someone does something dumb ass in the states, everyone is shocked and surprised, in Beijing it is just normal and should be expected (as a benefit, everyone is driving like everyone else is crazy).

(And I wasn't driving, rather sitting in the taxi, but I digress)

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#50

Post by imh »

dtnewman wrote: post #25

I worry about the regulatory aspects of getting self-driving cars off-the-ground in the United States. It is inevitable that self driving cars will make mistakes and people will be injured or killed as a result. It is also inevitable that people will be injured or killed as a result of people driving cars. But in the long run, it's virtually guaranteed that self-driving technology will result in safer cars and fewer…

I want the DMV to only license drivers when they are safe, alert, and driving defensively, so I want the DMV to only license autonomous systems when they can meet or exceed the bar of safe, alert, and defensive drivers. We can't enforce that humans drive that way after they're licensed, but we can enforce it with autonomous systems. We are already happy regulating driving, and we shouldn't lower the licensing bar to how people actually drive on average, "You get your license as long you drive better than the average Joe looking at google maps while he tailgates."
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