The primary issues that make frameworks flawed • Hacker News Board

Re: The primary issues that make frameworks flawed

#41

Post by ajbetteridge » Mon, Nov 14, 2016, 10:14 AM UTC

paganel wrote: post #38

eru wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some insights inspired from theory help a lot with writing CRUD apps. (Also of course, inspired from outside and then explored further by `theoreticians'.) The most successful of these are now invisible . Either because they are available libraries or so ingrained in the background of what we are doing. See for example regular expressions, parsers, garbage collection, databases, file systems, CPUs. For CRUD apps, "Ou…

> See for example regular expressions, parsers, garbage collection, databases, file systems, CPUs. Of course we're all standing on the shoulders of giants. So does the milk-man, who goes door to door using a vehicle of which he doesn't know much about how it was built/what its underlying principles are (is it a Otto-based engine? or a Diesel one? does the milk-man need to know the laws of TD?), but that vehicle is pa…

And that's the attitude that leads to the cure glut of IOT hardware with significant security bugs or no security at all. Build it fast and ship asap is not a sound plan for any software,and even less so for something that needs security. Anyone with an incentive of formal CS theory education will write better software than the same person before they had that education.

Re: The primary issues that make frameworks flawed

#42

Post by eru » Mon, Nov 14, 2016, 9:32 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #38

eru wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some insights inspired from theory help a lot with writing CRUD apps. (Also of course, inspired from outside and then explored further by `theoreticians'.) The most successful of these are now invisible . Either because they are available libraries or so ingrained in the background of what we are doing. See for example regular expressions, parsers, garbage collection, databases, file systems, CPUs. For CRUD apps, "Ou…

> See for example regular expressions, parsers, garbage collection, databases, file systems, CPUs. Of course we're all standing on the shoulders of giants. So does the milk-man, who goes door to door using a vehicle of which he doesn't know much about how it was built/what its underlying principles are (is it a Otto-based engine? or a Diesel one? does the milk-man need to know the laws of TD?), but that vehicle is pa…

> [...] the world needs lots and lots of code. In order to have lots and lots of code we need more programmers.

Nah, we can also have our programmes write code for us.

Snark aside, we are somewhat in agreement. We just have different personal preferences: I am happy to spend lots of time studying mostly useless theory for fun, and the ability to rescue me from endless tedious and unreliable hacking/patching every once in a while.

You are probably happier to deal with the tedium, and occasional blowing up of your software at runtime (Python, I am looking at you!)---in exchange for not having to waste all your time on CS theory.

The difference between a milkman and a programmer is that a programmer can build her own little robots to do all the tedious task for her. (And in most cases, by `robots' I mean little software tools, and not so much any hardware.)

The milkman can come up with some ingenious things too, eg a better route, or perhaps a particularly clever way to `tetris' the bottles and crates in the car---but it's not a core part of his job.

In contrast to the sibling commenters, I am happy about every milkman-programmer there is. That means less competition for my own breed of skills.

Re: The primary issues that make frameworks flawed

#43

Post by dorkrawk » Wed, Nov 16, 2016, 11:49 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #38

eru wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some insights inspired from theory help a lot with writing CRUD apps. (Also of course, inspired from outside and then explored further by `theoreticians'.) The most successful of these are now invisible . Either because they are available libraries or so ingrained in the background of what we are doing. See for example regular expressions, parsers, garbage collection, databases, file systems, CPUs. For CRUD apps, "Ou…

> See for example regular expressions, parsers, garbage collection, databases, file systems, CPUs. Of course we're all standing on the shoulders of giants. So does the milk-man, who goes door to door using a vehicle of which he doesn't know much about how it was built/what its underlying principles are (is it a Otto-based engine? or a Diesel one? does the milk-man need to know the laws of TD?), but that vehicle is pa…

When's the last time you saw a milk-man?