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Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

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Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#41

Post by steveklabnik »

fretlessjazz wrote: post #18

"If a programmer tells you to use vim or emacs tell them no. These editors are for when you are a better programmer. All you need right now is an editor that lets you put text into a file." Ha! When I started to program, everyone told me the opposite. After weeks of head scratching and spending more time learning editors than coding, I secretly switched to Pico. But man could I use the hell out of Pico.

I'm a huge vim advocate, but you're spot on. It's like giving a high powered rifle to a new recruit.

Get used to programming first, then use better tools.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#44

Post by rikthevik »

kingkilr wrote: post #7
theBobMcCormick wrote: post #6

So is that why he was trashing Dive Into Python? Trying to discredit the competition?

No he trashed DiP first, and then was inspired to work on something better. I'm not thrilled with the way he expressed his dislike for DiP, but good on him for working on an alternative.

I agree. There's not many people who put their money where their mouth is. Regardless of how people feel about him personally, he's a very talented coder and has a lot of experience in this domain. I'm excited to see where this goes.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#45

Post by steveklabnik »

d0m wrote: post #29

From my experience, the coolest thing to do when beginning is to work with a GUI because you really have the feeling to do something great (contrary to print hello in a terminal which is more than useless (from a novice point of view, of course)). So, my suggestion is to put a small bundle library with a main.py to modify and learn. For instance, that library could only show a simple dialog which you can draw and fun…

Sounds like you need to check out Ruby and Shoes.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#46

Post by zedshaw »

pavelludiq wrote: post #4

Mr. Shaw, i am once again impressed. This is not the first time I've seen Zed Shaw rant about something he dislikes and then goes off and attempts to fix it.

Thank you. Even though I complain about things, if I think I can fix it I usually do.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#47

Post by foenix »

paulitex wrote: post #12
nhebb wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far, the exercises do look like their targeted to the total beginner, but my money is that most programmers learn Python as their nth language, where n > 2. I say "so far" in hopes that he eventually gets enough exercises in the book that the material included now is just a small part of the finished work. Doh! VB index alert: The exercises are 0-based and the steps are 1-based. ;-)

"but my money is that most programmers learn Python as their nth language, where n > 2." Off the top of my head, I know at least 3 Universities (near me in Canada: UBC, SFU, UofC) that have recently switched to Python as the first language taught/used in their CS programs. There is a real demand for intro Python books. And IMHO Python is a pretty good first language.

SFU still requires their students to learn Java. Python is the introductory programming language of choice, and the introductory programming course is centered around it, but it isn't a requirement. (reference: http://www.cs.sfu.ca/undergrad/Advising/programs/majors.html ; I'm also close to the associate dean).

That being said, Python is a wonderful language to get started in programming.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#48

Post by zedshaw »

nhebb wrote: post #11
[deleted] wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

So far, the exercises do look like their targeted to the total beginner, but my money is that most programmers learn Python as their nth language, where n > 2. I say "so far" in hopes that he eventually gets enough exercises in the book that the material included now is just a small part of the finished work. Doh! VB index alert: The exercises are 0-based and the steps are 1-based. ;-)

My thinking is actually this: Python is a weird language that sits between C and Smalltalk It has odd idioms from C and strange constructs from Smalltalk which you don't really find in other languages. It's also very easy to type with a lot less "signpost junk" in it. My idea (totally unfounded) is that will make it easier for people to type it in, and also teach them the little secret idioms found in languages on both ends of the spectrum.

Also, there will be a few jokes about cardinal vs. ordinal numbers.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#49

Post by zedshaw »

fretlessjazz wrote: post #18

"If a programmer tells you to use vim or emacs tell them no. These editors are for when you are a better programmer. All you need right now is an editor that lets you put text into a file." Ha! When I started to program, everyone told me the opposite. After weeks of head scratching and spending more time learning editors than coding, I secretly switched to Pico. But man could I use the hell out of Pico.

I'm actually looking for a simple editor that works on all platforms, doesn't look totally like ass, and is easy to use. I'll then change things up so people just install that. Basically a GUI cross platform pico would be perfect.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#50

Post by zedshaw »

callahad wrote: post #2

I suggest reading the nascent PDF that he's posted, it's very good in some ways, less good in others, but if Zed keeps it up and is willing to have others help shape his voice, then this could end up as a very valuable project.

I'd like to know what you think is less good.
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