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It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

paulgraham.com

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Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#41

Post by edblarney »

retreatguru wrote: post #12
mc32 wrote: post #8

As someone aptly put it on twitter (Nate Cohn), the "white working class" is voting like a minority block--and why would they not? The elites have ignored the working class (white and black) for ages and when they do think of them, white (and other) elites look down at them with the contempt of 'white privilege' while they, the elite whites, sit comfortably in their protected perches rarely exposing themselves to ins…

Trump runs as the anti-establishment candidate and with his charisma does a good job selling it. His candidacy reminds me of the movie Idiocracy.

I'm not a Trump supporter, but he is no idiot. He's a 'populist genius'. The leaders in 'Idiocracy' were truly idiots.

He was 'charismatic' in kind of a perverse/uncliassical way ... enough to motivate enough people to tip the scales.

I think we will finally see the 'real Donald Trump' when he starts doing the actual work. I'm very interested, but honestly, I'm worried, I think the risk is high.

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#42

Post by sangnoir »

icantdrive55 wrote: post #32
retreatguru wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump runs as the anti-establishment candidate and with his charisma does a good job selling it. His candidacy reminds me of the movie Idiocracy.

I think the working class was really tired of Globalism. I'm as liberal as they get, but building in the cheapest country always bothered me. I get hammered for this, but we buy Apple products. We pay a premium. We are told Apple has to build overseas, in order to sell us products at their low prices. Then they have the gut wrenching corporate problem of too much cash? I'm sorry--it always bothered me. That said, I'l…

> I think the working class was really tired of Globalism...I'm sorry--it always bothered me.

It's not just globalism - it's global competition. Even if the US repeals NAFTA and other trade agreements and economically isolates itself, competition from Japan, China and Germany will remain.

The golden age of American manufacturing wasn't possible just because Glabalism wasn't in existence - it was possible because there was no competition since countries were rebuilding in the aftermath of WWII

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#43

Post by soneca »

Wow. I think it applies perfectly today.

"Theory: In US presidential elections, the more charismatic candidate wins.

People who write about politics, whether on the left or the right, have a consistent bias: they take politics seriously. When one candidate beats another they look for political explanations. The country is shifting to the left, or the right. And that sort of shift can certainly be the result of a presidential election, which makes it easy to believe it was the cause.

But when I think about why I voted for Clinton over the first George Bush, it wasn't because I was shifting to the left. Clinton just seemed more dynamic. He seemed to want the job more. Bush seemed old and tired. I suspect it was the same for a lot of voters."

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#44

Post by civilian »

retreatguru wrote: post #38
Tinyyy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure Sanders has more charisma than Hillary.

Maybe, maybe not, but it was so fun to watch and listen to Sanders - what a character. Hillary often feels scripted, forced and on message.

Is it fun? I think if you buy his story it might be fun. I feel pretty strong on my economics, and listening to Sanders talking was just disappointing.

When the hit-piece anecdote came up that Sanders was asked for leave a commune for lollygagging instead of working, it rang SO true for me. I know that it's overall a small irrelevant week in a whole life, but it really painted what kind of guy he is. http://freebeacon.com/politics/bernie-sanders-asked-leave-hi...

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#45

Post by Frqy3 »

retreatguru wrote: post #12
mc32 wrote: post #8

As someone aptly put it on twitter (Nate Cohn), the "white working class" is voting like a minority block--and why would they not? The elites have ignored the working class (white and black) for ages and when they do think of them, white (and other) elites look down at them with the contempt of 'white privilege' while they, the elite whites, sit comfortably in their protected perches rarely exposing themselves to ins…

Trump runs as the anti-establishment candidate and with his charisma does a good job selling it. His candidacy reminds me of the movie Idiocracy.

The DNC's mistake was misunderestimating (sic) Trump. The media played their part too.

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#46

Post by jjoonathan »

icantdrive55 wrote: post #32
retreatguru wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump runs as the anti-establishment candidate and with his charisma does a good job selling it. His candidacy reminds me of the movie Idiocracy.

I think the working class was really tired of Globalism. I'm as liberal as they get, but building in the cheapest country always bothered me. I get hammered for this, but we buy Apple products. We pay a premium. We are told Apple has to build overseas, in order to sell us products at their low prices. Then they have the gut wrenching corporate problem of too much cash? I'm sorry--it always bothered me. That said, I'l…

Trump isn't going to bring back manufacturing, but he's also not going to double the size of the H1B program. I'm glad I didn't vote for him, but I'm also glad he won :/

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#47

Post by traicepearson »

Tinyyy wrote: post #37
retreatguru wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thrust of the essay is that people don't vote by issues but by charisma - and Sanders has more charisma than Hillary. And he is also an anti-establishment candidate.

I'm not sure Sanders has more charisma than Hillary.

I think he absolutely does. But, more than Trump? That is harder to judge.

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#48

Post by AnimalMuppet »

douche wrote: post #29
venomsnake wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not only the white working class - she captures Latinos and Blacks with a lot lower margins than Obama. You cannot take a person's vote for you for granted. Last week a life long anticommunist in my country voted for the communist candidate - he just said "fuck it, I want to see the face of the ruling party hit the pavement". And a lot of whites obviously got fed up with being used as an intellectual punching p…

That's the thing that has struck me the most about the Clinton campaign. It's been incredibly lazy, as if Clinton were the anointed one who simply had to waltz to the White House. Not wanting to debate. Not putting in the work of campaigning, at least compared to Trump's marathon schedule. The arrogance and condescension at having to even be involved in the race against her opponent.

To put a word on it, I thought that she felt entitled to be president.

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#49

Post by AnimalMuppet »

farright wrote: post #15
wavefunction wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think punching someone in the mouth is political correctness? I didn't say anything about his politics, which you of course ignored because you wanted to trot out some inanities based on generalities of people you don't even know.

When you said "I'd probably punch the dude in the mouth if I had to deal with him and his attitude in person." I assumed you were including his political views. I hadn't accounted for you just being a generally violent angry person.

Trump has an attitude and an approach to dealing with people who disagree with him. His (public) interpersonal style rubs me very much the wrong way. I understand the temptation to want to punch him, and it's not because of his politics. Nor is it because I am a generally violent angry person. It's because Trump is (in public) a bully, and I deeply resent that style of interaction.

Re: It's Charisma, Stupid (2004)

#50

Post by cableshaft »

blfr wrote: post #21

It surely helps and Trump exploited every opportunity, spared no effort to make sure he wins but charisma is generally not the path to the White House https://sociological-eye.blogspot.com/2016/11/does-charisma-... Overall, 6 of 29 modern elections were won by strongly charismatic leaders (Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, JFK); another 4 elections were won by well-liked but uncharismatic figures, Eisenhower and Reagan. About 80…

Things change over time. Nowadays people are inundated by video of the candidates for over a year straight up to the election. Back then that certainly wasn't the case, especially before the time of television. I'm certain charisma plays more of a factor now than it used to.
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