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How I Build PHP Applications

ericharrison.info

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Re: How I Build PHP Applications

#41

Post by steveklabnik »

jqueryin wrote: post #26
patio11 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big secret is that programmers make more money when they stop pitching themselves as programmers and start pitching themselves as skilled professionals who make their firms millions using a variety of tools, including code (when appropriate). OK, it isn't much of a secret. I wince every time I hear someone describe himself as a "PHP coder" in mixed company (i.e. in front of folks with hiring authority rather than…

Soooo what's your job title? It sounds like you've sugar coated the hell out of it.

It's not sugar coating. That has the implication that he's lying; but programmers (at least good ones) do all of that. We create an incredible amount of value, and it's a disservice to ourselves to forget that.

Re: How I Build PHP Applications

#42

Post by grigory »

dagw wrote: post #8
wizard_2 wrote: post #3

I like this kind of post, but its not a topic I care too much about anymore. Like the author php pays my bills too, and most of my work is done alone. He doesn't like frameworks for reasons I don't like frameworks, abstractions are leaky. I still use frameworks because I'd rather have a team of people work on some of core features I use (orm, url routing, view engines) then just myself. I've also found that some php…

As a python programmer who will probably have to use php on an upcoming project, I'm wondering if there are any php frameworks you can recommend.

Definitely take a look at CodeIgniter. After going through several frameworks myself when faced with a necessity to switch from Python to PHP for several projects, this is the one I ended up staying with. It's really great actually. I might have ended up using it in a very Djangoesque way, but definitely did enjoy my time with it.

Re: How I Build PHP Applications

#43

Post by wizard_2 »

jacquesm wrote: post #36
wizard_2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've mostly been using django which is wonderful (even more so if you do things their way). The thing I love most about django is their orm, it makes cakephp's orm feel like a toy. I haven't yet used pylons, but I'm thinking that it would be good for me to learn another orm and it offers full support for a few. The reason I picked Django was the "apps". App's are python modules that tie into your project and provide…

I've tried (hard, three fair sized projects) to get in to django but I keep running in to limitations in the ORM that I could easily solve if I was writing sql direct. I'm impressed with your ability to get the app boundaries so clean, re-use has been another problem.

Django's orm seems to aware of some of it's weaknesses, you can actually write your own queries and return the data as a queryset (with your models) instead of just a dictionary or list of data. I use that to filter some records on a many to many join that was based on a shared field instead of a 3rd table and was happy with the results.

Before trying that out I actually built the 3rd table which while it only has 3 columns (id, fk1, fk2) is probably the largest tables I've ever had to use with around 10 million rows. The django orm spent many hours building those relations, my custom sql spent about 5 minutes. Sometimes when you have hammer....

I can't take credit for the clean app boundaries, it's either python or django that lends itself to it. The apps I've written have to have clean boundaries if I want to use the community apps. But thank you anyway, it's been a lot of fun learning all of this and the community has been very helpful.

Re: How I Build PHP Applications

#44

Post by mixmax »

steveklabnik wrote: post #22
robryan wrote: post #17

Similarly to the author I don't use any frameworks, well except JQuery for front end and XTemplate for templates. Main reason being when I'm a lone developer I prefer having stuff I'm comfortable with and understand back to front. I'm sure I could get this from a good framework that doesn't have a lot of linking between parts but I'll admit I haven't put a lot of time in to try and find this. The more I learn about P…

If you do get the chance, check out Ruby and Sinatra. The whole source is only roughly 2000 lines of code, but it gives you just a very minimal level of abstraction over HTTP. Here's "hello world" in Sinatra: require ‘rubygems’ require ’sinatra’ get ‘/hi’ do “Hello World!” end ... That's it. It's cool stuff.

And here it is in PHP:

echo "Hello world";

One line. Just saying....

Re: How I Build PHP Applications

#45

Post by cmelbye »

mixmax wrote: post #44
steveklabnik wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you do get the chance, check out Ruby and Sinatra. The whole source is only roughly 2000 lines of code, but it gives you just a very minimal level of abstraction over HTTP. Here's "hello world" in Sinatra: require ‘rubygems’ require ’sinatra’ get ‘/hi’ do “Hello World!” end ... That's it. It's cool stuff.

And here it is in PHP: echo "Hello world"; One line. Just saying....

Except not at all. Your example doesn't handle a clean URL like "/hi" (it would be something like "/hi.php" at best in PHP). Furthermore, it doesn't force the GET http request type, which is a major part of the Sinatra microframework. I can setup a Ruby script that outputs "Hello World", but that would miss the point entirely.

EDIT: Also, the original ruby example could be condensed to one line as well:

  get "/hi" { "Hello world" }
Run with ruby -rsinatra script.rb

Re: How I Build PHP Applications

#46

Post by armandososa »

ldite wrote: post #2

Summary; I don't like frameworks, so I rolled my own framework.

Summary: I don't like frameworks, so I traveled back in time and created CakePHP 0.9.

Really, I'm sure no one remembers CakePHP back then (they had not the pretty site yet) but was pretty much this.

Re: How I Build PHP Applications

#47

Post by armandososa »

steveklabnik wrote: post #22
robryan wrote: post #17

Similarly to the author I don't use any frameworks, well except JQuery for front end and XTemplate for templates. Main reason being when I'm a lone developer I prefer having stuff I'm comfortable with and understand back to front. I'm sure I could get this from a good framework that doesn't have a lot of linking between parts but I'll admit I haven't put a lot of time in to try and find this. The more I learn about P…

If you do get the chance, check out Ruby and Sinatra. The whole source is only roughly 2000 lines of code, but it gives you just a very minimal level of abstraction over HTTP. Here's "hello world" in Sinatra: require ‘rubygems’ require ’sinatra’ get ‘/hi’ do “Hello World!” end ... That's it. It's cool stuff.

Or try Microbus

    if(get("hi")){
        echo "Hello World";
    }
http://github.com/soska/microbus

(I know… I always feel bad with self promotion)

Re: How I Build PHP Applications

#48

Post by patio11 »

nir wrote: post #29
patio11 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big secret is that programmers make more money when they stop pitching themselves as programmers and start pitching themselves as skilled professionals who make their firms millions using a variety of tools, including code (when appropriate). OK, it isn't much of a secret. I wince every time I hear someone describe himself as a "PHP coder" in mixed company (i.e. in front of folks with hiring authority rather than…

How would you suggest he present himself? (Not sure about devs coming with cereal boxes just yet, btw... The want ads I see still ask for "PHP Coder" and offer six figure salaries for good ones)

So here's what he says about being a PHP coder:

PHP is installed on just about every server on the planet and a lot of really good companies use PHP simply because it’s so easy to get developers who know PHP. The other benefit to PHP is that it’s so simple and ridiculous that any programmer who doesn’t know PHP could master the basics in a day and be building pretty decent applications within a week or two. So, PHP certainly makes good financial sense all around.

I suggest he not present himself as having a skill which there are millions of alternatives for and which can be mastered in two days.

Instead, I would focus more on him as a package deal of domain expertise, soft skills, engineering expertise, and programming ability (including PHP) which has previously achieved successes for businesses such as brag brag brag focusing on business benefits and is ready to pitch pitch pitch focusing on business benefits for you.

Re: How I Build PHP Applications

#49

Post by keltex »

ldite wrote: post #2

Summary; I don't like frameworks, so I rolled my own framework.

A friend of mine does software consulting for medical groups. He rolled his own framework which is a combination of SQL Server and ASP classic.

The funny thing is that it was the SQL Server stored procedures that generated the HTML, not ASP. I couldn't figure out if it was genius or insane.

Re: How I Build PHP Applications

#50

Post by nir »

patio11 wrote: post #48
nir wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you suggest he present himself? (Not sure about devs coming with cereal boxes just yet, btw... The want ads I see still ask for "PHP Coder" and offer six figure salaries for good ones)

So here's what he says about being a PHP coder: PHP is installed on just about every server on the planet and a lot of really good companies use PHP simply because it’s so easy to get developers who know PHP. The other benefit to PHP is that it’s so simple and ridiculous that any programmer who doesn’t know PHP could master the basics in a day and be building pretty decent applications within a week or two. So, PHP c…

(I don't mean to be argumentative, I think it's a question many developers wrestle with) When I wrote "he", I meant the fictional guy saying "I'm a PHP coder". Obviously it would be better and more true to say something like "software developer" instead of locking to a particular technology, but I'm not sure how he could further convey his value in a job description.

("Founder" is actually a good example - it can apply to Steve Jobs as well as a lot of HN users, the value each is creating is wildly different)

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