Academia, Love Me Back • Hacker News Board

Re: Academia, Love Me Back

#41

Post by hooloovoo_zoo » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:02 PM UTC

CalChris wrote: post #21

I side with the student. This is beyond a jerk move. To be clear, the beyond a jerk move part is doing this in front of the class with such flimsy evidence. I have see this before. It happened to a black woman friend. In this case the professor's flimsy evidence was a shift in tone which happens in editing all the time. That said, hence is an adverb and not a conjunction. Hence there is no comma after hence. BTW, thi…

This is not a uniformly accepted rule. Commas are common after adverbs such as therefore, nevertheless, and hence. There is no mistake here.

Re: Academia, Love Me Back

#42

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:18 PM UTC

hooloovoo_zoo wrote: post #41

CalChris wrote: post #21

I side with the student. This is beyond a jerk move. To be clear, the beyond a jerk move part is doing this in front of the class with such flimsy evidence. I have see this before. It happened to a black woman friend. In this case the professor's flimsy evidence was a shift in tone which happens in editing all the time. That said, hence is an adverb and not a conjunction. Hence there is no comma after hence. BTW, thi…

This is not a uniformly accepted rule. Commas are common after adverbs such as therefore, nevertheless, and hence. There is no mistake here.

[deleted]

Re: Academia, Love Me Back

#43

Post by rocqua » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:20 PM UTC

CJefferson wrote: post #5

This is crazy. If the story is true as written, the academic in question needs to be fired. I would expect nothing less at my own University. I find the story hard to believe only because it is so terrible -- and that an academic would be stupid enough to accuse a student of plagiarism without concrete evidence (in particular, the text from which they plagiarised). However, even if the academic in question had such e…

There is a lot I feel like I can get done at my university. Outrage will do a lot.

That said, I know of a few professors that could get away with this shit. There are always a few professors that are thoroughly entrenched.

Re: Academia, Love Me Back

#44

Post by rocqua » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:23 PM UTC

random567 wrote: post #39

gravypod wrote: post #25

I've had professors do this to me. I don't understand what's wrong with this. This is a common thing I even do when grading programming assignments. When I notice a stylistic choice that is outside of the norm for the students I can usually tell exactly who the work came from. Every semester I catch at least one group of cheaters (This semester I caught two!) and they admit to it after I confront them with it. "Hence…

part of the problem is public shaming > This morning, my professor handed me back a paper (a literature review) in front of my entire class and exclaimed “this is not your language.” While it's reasonable to ask someone if they've plagiarized, asking that person about it in public in front of their classmates is mean-spirited.

There is also something about the extreme emphasis on 'this is not your word'. Much like the public shaming, it suggests the professor is not just displeased, but viscerally outraged.

Re: Academia, Love Me Back

#45

Post by CalChris » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:24 PM UTC

hooloovoo_zoo wrote: post #41

CalChris wrote: post #21

I side with the student. This is beyond a jerk move. To be clear, the beyond a jerk move part is doing this in front of the class with such flimsy evidence. I have see this before. It happened to a black woman friend. In this case the professor's flimsy evidence was a shift in tone which happens in editing all the time. That said, hence is an adverb and not a conjunction. Hence there is no comma after hence. BTW, thi…

This is not a uniformly accepted rule. Commas are common after adverbs such as therefore, nevertheless, and hence. There is no mistake here.

You might be right. She may have used hence in the conjunctive adverb sense.

Having looked it up a bit, it still goes both ways. The argument against the comma is that if hence is a transitional word then you would omit the comma. If you feel the need for a pause then you would insert it.

So it's a fielder's choice and not a mistake.

Re: Academia, Love Me Back

#46

Post by dilemma » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:25 PM UTC

gravypod wrote: post #25

I've had professors do this to me. I don't understand what's wrong with this. This is a common thing I even do when grading programming assignments. When I notice a stylistic choice that is outside of the norm for the students I can usually tell exactly who the work came from. Every semester I catch at least one group of cheaters (This semester I caught two!) and they admit to it after I confront them with it. "Hence…

> Just because something is possible/correct in a language and that the person wiring the piece has every bit of ability to use the complex structure at had it doesn't mean they would normally do so. Sure it's not accurate, and sure you may not be right with every call (hasn't happened to me yet but other TAs have called people out and have turned out to be wrong), but it's something that I'd call a "clue" that something is different.

So the next time your write an HN comment and don't misspell "hand" we will know that you've plagiarized.

Re: Academia, Love Me Back

#47

Post by rocqua » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:25 PM UTC

IsaacL wrote: post #3

We (as outsider observers) lack the evidence to judge this story objectively. It sucks to be unfairly accused of plagiarism (it happened to me once in high school). However, we don't know why the professor came to the conclusion that she plagiarised. Maybe they jumped to conclusions on limited evidence, or maybe this paper was written with vocabulary and sentence structure which was inconsistent with the student's ea…

No matter the context in which the professor came to the conclusion of plagiarism, the public shaming remains a terrible thing.

It is simply never OK to try and put someone down, even more so when you are someones administrative superior.

Re: Academia, Love Me Back

#48

Post by apathy » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:44 PM UTC

otoburb wrote: post #2

It somehow feels that we are missing the other side of this emotionally charged post. I just used the word "hence" in a previous HN comment, but realize that I rarely use this word in verbal conversation. However, this doesn't excuse the alleged behaviour of the professor in the article. When making a plagiarism accusation, is it common to call this out openly without attempting to address 1-1 first in academic setti…

Is it common to accuse a student of plagiarism without, oh, I don't know, actual evidence?

You know, like the fruits of searching Google for five seconds to try and locate "the offending phrase"?

What kind of a fucking fossil can't be bothered to at least substantiate their bigotry instead of ranting themselves out of a job? (And no, tenure doesn't cover obvious failure to abide by university policies. Of course it could just as well have been some adjunct making $8/hour)

"Hey there, you with the beaner name. I have absolutely no evidence of wrongdoing on your part, so go fetch me some"

What a twit. I'm not a particularly nice person and have no problem failing students who won't put in the work, but this is beyond the pale.

Re: Academia, Love Me Back

#49

Post by HarryHirsch » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:47 PM UTC

Pharylon wrote: post #15

IsaacL wrote: post #3

We (as outsider observers) lack the evidence to judge this story objectively. It sucks to be unfairly accused of plagiarism (it happened to me once in high school). However, we don't know why the professor came to the conclusion that she plagiarised. Maybe they jumped to conclusions on limited evidence, or maybe this paper was written with vocabulary and sentence structure which was inconsistent with the student's ea…

Maybe not an active KKK-rally attending racist, but a soft racist? There's a reason why two identical resumes for post-graduate work get rated differently when the names are "Chad" vs "Shaniqua". The fact is, when you really get down to it, most people are subconsciously racist. Not a joke - most people. There have been studies on it and everything.

If you replace the names with "MIT" and "mediocre four-year institution that no-one ever heard of" suddenly it becomes less straightforward. Race is a proxy for education, and that's where the real injustice is.

Re: Academia, Love Me Back

#50

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:47 PM UTC

Pharylon wrote: post #15

IsaacL wrote: post #3

We (as outsider observers) lack the evidence to judge this story objectively. It sucks to be unfairly accused of plagiarism (it happened to me once in high school). However, we don't know why the professor came to the conclusion that she plagiarised. Maybe they jumped to conclusions on limited evidence, or maybe this paper was written with vocabulary and sentence structure which was inconsistent with the student's ea…

Maybe not an active KKK-rally attending racist, but a soft racist? There's a reason why two identical resumes for post-graduate work get rated differently when the names are "Chad" vs "Shaniqua". The fact is, when you really get down to it, most people are subconsciously racist. Not a joke - most people. There have been studies on it and everything.

[deleted]