It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship • Hacker News Board

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#41

Post by daodedickinson » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 1:33 AM UTC

Rapzid wrote: post #20

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #5

Venezuela'a foreign exchange reserves stand at less than $12 billion [1]. They pay over 15% of that this month to bond holders [2]. This makes no sense until one considers that the bond holders might be regime insiders. Venezuela is a state structured to maximise the transfer of wealth from the many to the few. Shockingly, as recently as 2004 Venezuela boasted fair elections [3]. The degree to which Venezuelans are t…

It's all just one poorly elected candidate away I guess. Look at what's happening in the Philippines with Duterte for a taste of why people are so concerned about Trump(regardless of whether the concern would end up founded or not).

It took more than one election: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06CARACAS2063_a.html

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#42

Post by tptacek » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 1:33 AM UTC

andrenth wrote: post #38

tptacek wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How seriously am I supposed to take someone who implies that the leader of a "leftist intellectual elite" (whatever that is) is Michael Moore ?

I have never implied that.

I think you did. It's hard to imagine why you'd have cited Michael Moore in the same breath as "leftist intellectual elite" otherwise.

How credible would I sound talking about a right-wing intellectual elite after referencing something Ann Coulter had said? Because that's who Michael Moore is: the Ann Coulter of the left.

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#43

Post by CptJamesCook » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 1:34 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #13

CptJamesCook wrote: post #10

Just three years ago: https://twitter.com/mmflint/status/309124649244057600

Dude is wrong on the Internet. More news at 11.

In 2005, Time magazine named Moore one of the world's 100 most influential people.

So, not exactly just a dude. Michael Moore represents a growing anti-capitalist ideology in America, and when their socialist experiments fail it should be noted.

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#44

Post by jimmywanger » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 1:34 AM UTC

jackcosgrove wrote: post #11

Unrestrained equality leads to dictatorship. Unrestrained liberty leads to dictatorship. Democracy requires a balance between equality and liberty, and the political pluralism that is inherent in the vying for power. Partisan fanatics who breathlessly wait for the total victory of their side would do well to remember this.

There is a fundamental discord between property rights and democracy.

See https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FC0ZB2/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?.... It speaks a lot about market dominant ethnic minorities. The Chinese and the Jews are the target of a lot of these attacks.

If you're filipino, and ethnic filipino, it's easy for a populist government to incite economic confiscation and persecution of the ethnic group that tends to hold all the money, which happens to be the Chinese in the Phillipines.

Same thing happened in Venezuela. "All the rich people have the money! Let's go take it back! They must have cheated us somehow! Nationalize the factories."

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#45

Post by robk » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 1:34 AM UTC

DominikR wrote: post #9

A country with one of the greatest oil reserves in the world, fertile land, good climate, access to the sea (world trade) and no military conflicts for a century was turned into a population of homeless people hunting dogs and cats on the streets in order to not starve to death - only possible with Socialism. I remember how ten years ago people on my university (in a Western country) were trying to convince me that C…

Living outside the us and thus exposed to Far more socialists per capita has fully convinced me even further of the toxicity of socialism.

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#46

Post by RandyRanderson » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 1:35 AM UTC

I wonder which has the higher correlation to instability:

1 formOfGovernmentX - ie democracy, socialism, dictatorship, etc 2 On america's shit list

?

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#47

Post by joncrane » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 1:35 AM UTC

I lived in Venezuela as the son of a diplomat in the late 80s. It was a wonderful country. As a middle schooler (grades 6-8) I rode my BMX bike all over Caracas with my buddy with no fear in the world.

The funny thing is, at that time, Venezuela was known to have suffered quite a decline from it's heights in the late 70s and early 80s when it was on the cusp of being a 1st world country thanks to the oil boom and (relatively) smart investment in infrastructure.

Even back then they had price controls, where the prices of things were printed on the packaging of all products.

It's always a shame when a country suffers, and it's particularly sad to me because I know the country well, and there are a lot of great things to celebrate about the country.

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#48

Post by tptacek » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 1:35 AM UTC

CptJamesCook wrote: post #43

tptacek wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude is wrong on the Internet. More news at 11.

In 2005, Time magazine named Moore one of the world's 100 most influential people. So, not exactly just a dude. Michael Moore represents a growing anti-capitalist ideology in America, and when their socialist experiments fail it should be noted.

Again not clear on why I'm meant to care what the Ann Coulter of the left thinks about Venezuela. He has lots of nice things to say about Fidel Castro era Cuba as well.

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#49

Post by tptacek » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 1:37 AM UTC

robk wrote: post #19

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #5

Venezuela'a foreign exchange reserves stand at less than $12 billion [1]. They pay over 15% of that this month to bond holders [2]. This makes no sense until one considers that the bond holders might be regime insiders. Venezuela is a state structured to maximise the transfer of wealth from the many to the few. Shockingly, as recently as 2004 Venezuela boasted fair elections [3]. The degree to which Venezuelans are t…

When a democracy transitions to a dictatorship in a decade how do you not hood the electorate responsible? They made the choices continually to allow this.

What does it even mean to "hold an electorate responsible"?

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#50

Post by tptacek » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 1:38 AM UTC

jimmywanger wrote: post #44

jackcosgrove wrote: post #11

Unrestrained equality leads to dictatorship. Unrestrained liberty leads to dictatorship. Democracy requires a balance between equality and liberty, and the political pluralism that is inherent in the vying for power. Partisan fanatics who breathlessly wait for the total victory of their side would do well to remember this.

There is a fundamental discord between property rights and democracy. See https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FC0ZB2/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?... . It speaks a lot about market dominant ethnic minorities. The Chinese and the Jews are the target of a lot of these attacks. If you're filipino, and ethnic filipino, it's easy for a populist government to incite economic confiscation and persecution of the ethnic group that tends…

There's also an even clearer historical tension between property rights and right-wing authoritarian dictatorships, so I'm not sure how much we can learn from your observation.