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Modern Web 101: From Free Software Fetishism to Free Web

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Re: Modern Web 101: From Free Software Fetishism to Free Web

#41
post #11

If I understand the article correctly, it's saying that Free Software developers would better be advancing free software ideals by developing applications for the Google Chromebook platform. I say Google chromebook, not "The Web", since all the author's examples are NaCl or apps from the Chrome web store. I don't think this is really any different than Free Software developers writing programs for other closed platfo…

I'm pretty sure it's satire with an interesting intro to chromebooks world.

Or some one hasn't been taking their meds

Re: Modern Web 101: From Free Software Fetishism to Free Web

#42
post #23
post #10

Not sure if this is satire? Am I understanding correctly that he's advocating moving everything to 'web applications' because somehow it'll be more 'free'?

Yeah I'm not he ever said why adopting web technologies would be better, except by saying that using cli tools is fetishism. (But web technologies aren't I guess?)

sometimes the CLI is the correct tool for the job and its interesting that Microsoft is going down the cli route with powershell

Re: Modern Web 101: From Free Software Fetishism to Free Web

#43
post #37
post #16

OK, so all this confused discourse is to sell their stuff. And this: > We normally hire through traineeships lasting six to twelve months. This sounds illegal. Possibly for 2 reasons.

What makes it sound illegal? Genuinely curious.

Here were I live You it's always max 3 months

Re: Modern Web 101: From Free Software Fetishism to Free Web

#44
post #25

The author has a decent opening point about how we Free Software Enthusiasts need to be aware of the world in which regular people are computing, otherwise we'll never be able to reach them. If my understanding of history is correct, the GNU utilities were better than the proprietary UNIX ones: they had sensible defaults, or better features, or DWIMmmy behaviour (`find` instead of `find .`, anyone?). GNU basically pu…

>If Free Software "fights for the users", then it needs to go to where the users are, and that's the web. To what extent? Just because a mass of users are somewhere, doesn't make that environment the right place for free software. But I'm not saying it's a wrong place. But it's not the only possible place. A popular environment might be by its nature unsuitable for free software, and free software developers would be…

Nothing you said is wrong, and I don't really like what the modern web has become. But I can't see how you'd build a better platform, then build something that drives adoption of that platform while there's so much dev attention on the web. Maybe it's possible, and maybe I just lack vision.

Re: Modern Web 101: From Free Software Fetishism to Free Web

#45
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If Free Software "fights for the users", then it needs to go to where the users are, and that's the web. To what extent? Just because a mass of users are somewhere, doesn't make that environment the right place for free software. But I'm not saying it's a wrong place. But it's not the only possible place. A popular environment might be by its nature unsuitable for free software, and free software developers would be…

Nothing you said is wrong, and I don't really like what the modern web has become. But I can't see how you'd build a better platform, then build something that drives adoption of that platform while there's so much dev attention on the web. Maybe it's possible, and maybe I just lack vision.

Consider that, to do a new thing, we don't need a cohesive platform that replaces the whole of the web. We can leverage the web, e.g. use it to distribute native applications, or scripts that run on some new interpreter.

I like the look of the Red language. The goal there is to make a more modern, open source version of Rebol, which has aspects that tried to directly compete with the web some years ago.

I suspect the successful modern version of a Red-based open, distributed app network and hypertext document system will have more of a symbiotic relationship with the existing web.

Re: Modern Web 101: From Free Software Fetishism to Free Web

#46
I don't understand why people buy chromebooks to then enable the developer mode which can wipe your data if you are careless and then install a different operating system or crouton instead of just getting a equivalent laptop with windows and then do the same.

Re: Modern Web 101: From Free Software Fetishism to Free Web

#47
post #10

Not sure if this is satire? Am I understanding correctly that he's advocating moving everything to 'web applications' because somehow it'll be more 'free'?

The majority of users use web applications. The majority of web applications are not free software. You can conclude from this that the majority of users don't use free software.

The point of the article is to think more like the average user. They will trade off convenience at the cost of privacy and control if that is what it takes. However if you offer them convenience, privacy and control without a tradeoff by creating more free software for the web they are more likely to use free software.

Re: Modern Web 101: From Free Software Fetishism to Free Web

#48
Foreword : For someone whom I have met much more time lobbying/selling the virtue of Free Software to the administration to have his private owned companies make benefits from the public money, it is the kind of shaming on Free Software devs I take a moral stance in NOT accepting. I might have heard him on the phone asking our company to rig a market by agreeing on price while on an open invitation to tender. So, I have a strong beef against patronizers that are worth being patronized.

I still am not convinced by modern web development, not as a free software devs, but as a user.

I hate above all ... the design and UX.

I cannot convince myself after years of experiencing CLI as a very convenient way to read infos and automate my task that web is better.

web is about making wrapper around scripts. It is like an animal who has 10 kg of skin for 1kg of muscle. It is RIGID as a dogma. You cannot pipe web applications, unify them, have a consistent information. It is pre-historic IT. I even find curses more interesting.

OS have authentication built-in often done right, but each an every websites recreate their own poorly. Isn't it a waste of effort and duplication?

What is more troubling is the horrible lack of consistency in the presentation and method for getting information. The strength of terminal is : consistency, readable fonts, consistent layout/navigation and fast access to information. Scrolling the web for information pisses me off. I love man, perldoc, pydoc. The web is as if you had one kind of man per application, one new ncurses, keyboard shortcut, files per apps. Web is inconsistent and would deserved to be questioned as a lingua franca of information technologies.

There is no added value in disrupting a user each an every time he/she does the classical task of ITs: reading/writing.

There is no consistent handling of most keys like copy/paste/tabs.

There is no «typography» of the web. Information deserves consistency.

We are in 2016 the web is resulting in multiplying the manual copy and degradation of sensitive information.

I belong to a country where accents in surname are part of our identity. Most of the web sites still handle this poorly.

And to someone telling me how to exercise my own freedom, I would answer to the author of the article the worlds of another free software actor in France (the authors are french btw) I do What The Fuck I want, don't come patronizing me about how I do exercise my own freedom, especially my freedom of thinking.

Re: Modern Web 101: From Free Software Fetishism to Free Web

#50
post #28

As opposed to any aspect of web development, UNIX has the nice feature of being somewhat well-designed. If we're going to try to make a universal content platform, we should at least wait until someone does a good job of it. Javascript and HTML are really poor choices for the majority of tasks.

>If we're going to try to make a universal content platform, we should at least wait until someone does a good job of it.

I don't think that will happen in my lifetime. We have to live with what already have. Yes they are bad choices but everyone pretends it's the best we have because it's crossplatform and you can just type a link into your address bar without installing anything. These two things are great for both the developers and the users.

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