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Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

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Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#41

Post by Figs »

madaxe_again wrote: post #10
jcoffland wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My statements above were neutral but yes I do think that the US and the western world in general are falling behind. What happens if US and Russian relations break down? Privatization of the US space industry is interesting but has yet to prove itself. No private institution has achieved manned orbit.

Dude, we were already behind. The only significant US first in space was the lunar landing - the USSR thrashed the US with everything from Sputnik to venera to Gagarin to salyut. The only difference is that you now have a window out of your propaganda bubble. There's a reason that Chinese space progress is barely reported, if at all, in the west. It's embarrassing, and doesn't tie in with the deluded "west is best" w…

The US does actually have some other significant firsts in space, especially in the outer solar system:

- First probe to reach Jupiter (Pioneer 10)

- First probe to reach escape velocity needed to leave the solar system (Pioneer 10)

- Arguably, first probe to leave the solar system (Pioneer 10 or Voyager 1, depending on the definition of "leave the solar system")

- First probe to orbit Jupiter (Galileo)

- First probe to fly-by an asteroid (Galileo) -- passed by 951 Gaspra

- First probe to reach Saturn (Pioneer 11)

- First (and only) probe to visit Uranus (Voyager 2)

- First (and only) probe to visit Neptune (Voyager 2)

- First (and only) probe to visit Pluto (New Horizons)

- First probe to reach Mercury (Mariner 10)

- First probe to orbit Mercury (MESSENGER) -- also, to date, these are the only two probes to visit Mercury

- First probe to orbit two different celestial bodies (Dawn) -- it orbited the asteroids Vesta and Ceres. Also, the first time either body has been visited by a probe.

- First photograph of Earth from orbit (Explorer 6) -- not a particularly good image by modern standards, but a pretty significant first given the importance spy satellites have played in international relations since then (You can see the image here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_satellite_photo_-_E... )

Somewhat less significant by modern standards, but still interesting:

- First probe to send back data from Venus (Mariner 2) -- the USSR had a fly-by before this (Venera 1), but lost contact with the probe and so couldn't get any data from the fly-by, unfortunately. Mariner 2 didn't have a camera though.

- First probe to successfully return images from Mars (Mariner 4) -- the USSR had the first fly-by (Mars 1), a few years earlier but they lost contact with the probe before it actually reached Mars.

- First probe to orbit Mars (Mariner 9) -- also the first to orbit another planet. Only just barely beat the USSR Mars 2 probe by about two weeks though.

Some other interesting links on space history:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_space_exploration

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Solar_System_probes

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#42

Post by informatimago »

kobeya wrote: post #37
lmm wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we stop this? It's the modern-day version of the victorian collective noun parlour game, and just as stupid.

Then we should stop using the inaccurate "astronaut" and call them all cosmonauts.

Well, then don't navigate the astres, the cosmos or the stars. They only circumnavigate Earth and a few went just so far as Earth's Moon.

Let's call them Earth orbitonauts. :-)

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#44

Post by Hondor »

kobeya wrote: post #37
lmm wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we stop this? It's the modern-day version of the victorian collective noun parlour game, and just as stupid.

Then we should stop using the inaccurate "astronaut" and call them all cosmonauts.

Astronaut is the original English word. Cosmonaut is a transliteration from the Russian word for astronaut. So if we're speaking English, we should use astronaut regardless of the country they're from. Otherwise we're forced to invent silly new words that nobody understands like taikonaut and what will we call Indian astronauts or whoever's next?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronaut#Terminology

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#45

Post by exDM69 »

throwaway123098 wrote: post #14
madaxe_again wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, we were already behind. The only significant US first in space was the lunar landing - the USSR thrashed the US with everything from Sputnik to venera to Gagarin to salyut. The only difference is that you now have a window out of your propaganda bubble. There's a reason that Chinese space progress is barely reported, if at all, in the west. It's embarrassing, and doesn't tie in with the deluded "west is best" w…

But we were not _really_ behind. We were about a year behind (if not less), and much was due to other American advantages: we didn't need huge rockets (which would launch humans into space) since American nuclear bombs were smaller. The reason we don't hear much about China is because that don't do much: Launch a man into space once a year? Land a rover on the Moon? That's 1960s news. If it would be more serious, the…

The big difference between the execution of the US and Soviet space races is that the Soviets produced the Soyuz - a very capable space craft and launch vehicle that still flies today. On top of that they pioneered space stations and long duration manned space missions.

The US on the other hand built an impractically large moonshot rocket that was too expensive to keep on producing. Then the US moved on the the Space Shuttle, which overpromised and underdelivered (e.g. did not serve the air force and get funding from there) and didn't provide a contingency into the future and had to be retired leaving the US with no manned space launch capability.

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#47

Post by digi_owl »

ifdefdebug wrote: post #35
tjohns wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can launch things to space, yes. But we don't have any vehicles that have life support, abort, or re-entry capabilities. It would be a short, one-way trip. So no, we really can't send anyone to space right now. And the Soyuz is actually pretty safe, relatively speaking. Aside from two notable failures early on, Soyuz hasn't had a fatality in 27 years.

Big problem for NASA: once they discontinued manned space flight, they now have a very hard time getting back into it. The Russians spacecraft is considered relatively safe because they are building upon a proven technology that has been "debugged" for decades now. NASA just has a prototype that hasn't proven anything yet, and I doubt it will be ready by 2023. The decision to go for a lander with wings and wheels loo…

The shuttle would have worked better without the military involvement (made the bird overly large) and pork barrel politics (solid boosters).

Observe that pork barreling is holding back any NASA options while the private companies are pushing forward.

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#48

Post by kuschku »

lmm wrote: post #28
tjohns wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can launch things to space, yes. But we don't have any vehicles that have life support, abort, or re-entry capabilities. It would be a short, one-way trip. So no, we really can't send anyone to space right now. And the Soyuz is actually pretty safe, relatively speaking. Aside from two notable failures early on, Soyuz hasn't had a fatality in 27 years.

We launched an Orion into orbit on top of a Delta IV, no? We could do that again and put people in if we were willing to accept the risk.

Aside of the fact that that was only a very early prototype, the Orion service module is actually not a NASA project – it’s actually contracted out to ESA.

And a crew module without a service module is not good for much.

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#49

Post by kuschku »

Hondor wrote: post #44
kobeya wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then we should stop using the inaccurate "astronaut" and call them all cosmonauts.

Astronaut is the original English word. Cosmonaut is a transliteration from the Russian word for astronaut. So if we're speaking English, we should use astronaut regardless of the country they're from. Otherwise we're forced to invent silly new words that nobody understands like taikonaut and what will we call Indian astronauts or whoever's next? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronaut#Terminology

The argument is that Astronaut means "sailor of the stars", but "Cosmonaut" means "sailor of the cosmos".

As they’re obviously not sailing between stars, but in the cosmos, Cosmonaut is obviously the correct term.

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#50

Post by Hondor »

kuschku wrote: post #49
Hondor wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Astronaut is the original English word. Cosmonaut is a transliteration from the Russian word for astronaut. So if we're speaking English, we should use astronaut regardless of the country they're from. Otherwise we're forced to invent silly new words that nobody understands like taikonaut and what will we call Indian astronauts or whoever's next? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronaut#Terminology

The argument is that Astronaut means "sailor of the stars", but "Cosmonaut" means "sailor of the cosmos". As they’re obviously not sailing between stars, but in the cosmos, Cosmonaut is obviously the correct term.

Not according to dictionary.com:

"Astro- a combining form with the meaning “pertaining to stars or celestial bodies, or to activities, as spaceflight, taking place outside the earth's atmosphere,” used in the formation of compound words:"

It sounds like the Greek(?) meaning has been lost now in English, which is fine since it's a different language. Astronomers still sometimes look at other planets afterall.

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