Facebook seems not to be paying app developer $160K in ad revenue • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook seems not to be paying app developer $160K in ad revenue

#41

Post by mysterypie » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 9:31 AM UTC

has2k1 wrote: post #13

vonklaus wrote: post #7

This happened to someone using stripe; a similar case where the account was suspended and the user was upset about the inability to capture revenue. I trust stripe a lot more than FB, that said, PC showed up in the thread as well as numerous suppory staff. The claim was similar, big money rev processing suspended but limited details. It turned out that the user was violating the terms and had been notified well in ad…

When you are getting the types of numbers mentioned by the app creator and you mention the name of the app, you invite unoriginal competition and Denial-of-Service attacks if possible.

I'm very suspicious of the fact that he doesn't give the name of the app or explain what it does, but you make a very good point.

If he is making this kind of money--and he mentions that it wasn't much effort to write the app--he'd kill the golden goose if he reveals what it does.

Re: Facebook seems not to be paying app developer $160K in ad revenue

#42

Post by ap22213 » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 9:31 AM UTC

The spike in ad clicks (or some other metric) probably triggered an automated fraud detection system. Apparently FB sent him a separate email that contains the details (see the email's top paragraph).

Also, the email from FB has simple grammar errors and typos. I would expect a company of FB's size to have QA for this type of automated content. So, it leaves some doubt in my mind that the email wasn't edited before he posted to Reddit.

It's not 'stealing' if there's a violation in a contract (terms of service) and a payment is withheld. He could get a lawyer at this point. Or, maybe there is an arbitration clause in the contract. Who knows. But, there are legal remedies to these types of disputes. The dude should calm down, stop posting to the internet, be professional about it, and search for legit legal advice.

Re: Facebook seems not to be paying app developer $160K in ad revenue

#43

Post by afghanPower » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 9:33 AM UTC

huhtenberg wrote: post #36

In http://imgur.com/B86pJHi.png , what are the columns exactly, does anyone know? The 7th column in particular, with the %-ages. If that's a click-through rate, then the numbers look inflated.

Pretty sure that's CTR. It's really not that hight considering we're talking about a mobile app. People tend to tap at ads when they're trying to do something else, and that often leads to insanely high CTRs.

Pretty sure this dude is paying someone to click on his ads and generate impressions so that the CTR is average.

Re: Facebook seems not to be paying app developer $160K in ad revenue

#44

Post by zazpowered » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 9:33 AM UTC

mysterypie wrote: post #39

zazpowered wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no he said it was USD

The original person (tihonovova) never said "USD". What you saw was someone else's (TheWhiteKnight's) comment on reddit. However, the original person did use the symbol "$" and his Facebook screenshots used "$". So I do agree with you that he and Facebook do mean US dollars. If it were Ukrainian currency, it would have said ₴160,000 or UAH160,000. Can someone from the Ukraine confirm that you would never write $160,0…

https://www.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/570gco/facebook...

Re: Facebook seems not to be paying app developer $160K in ad revenue

#45

Post by zazpowered » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 9:34 AM UTC

I feel like something must be wrong here. It's in Facebook's best interest to keep high performing publishers because thats how they make their money. I don't think they would try to harm that relationship just to prevent paying out publishers because they would just bounce and use a different network.

Re: Facebook seems not to be paying app developer $160K in ad revenue

#46

Post by sdoering » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 9:34 AM UTC

TillE wrote: post #30

skrebbel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not American. I read this sort of advice a lot here on HN and it always puzzles me. If I were to believe HN, the only way people ever do business in the US is through their lawyers. Or, at least, the moment there's some sort of misunderstanding or screwup there's always someone on HN who says "lawyer up!" and it's usually the top comment. Somehow, apparently, trying to sort things out the oldschool "hey we're bo…

> hey we're both businesspeople But you're not. Facebook is about a billion times more powerful than you. You're not peers. They literally won't even talk to you.

No. You are peers. Both are businesses doing business. They have a business relationship.

> They literally won't even talk to you.

And exactly this is, why the system is broken. If you are the elephant in the room and you do not have to care for the flies even if there would be regulations protecting the flies then this is not a good situation.

This would be some kind of Feudalism. At least in practice.

To clarify: I know there exists rules and regulations. But if a big player like FB can just ignore them unless someone unleashes their lawyers, esp. if this other person is sitting half the globe away, then something is very, very broken and fucked up.

Re: Facebook seems not to be paying app developer $160K in ad revenue

#47

Post by elorant » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 9:35 AM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #25

gubby wrote: post #21

I am not a lawyer. I think a mistake many people make in ongoing situations like these is contacting (and thereby deferring to) a companies 'support' channel. By asking them to reconsider, you almost subject yourself to their authority. If you believe you have a legal dispute, you should write to them officially, cc your legal advisor if you have one. Given the sums involved I would personally take professional legal…

I am not American. I read this sort of advice a lot here on HN and it always puzzles me. If I were to believe HN, the only way people ever do business in the US is through their lawyers. Or, at least, the moment there's some sort of misunderstanding or screwup there's always someone on HN who says "lawyer up!" and it's usually the top comment. Somehow, apparently, trying to sort things out the oldschool "hey we're bo…

That’s the cost of doing business with large corporations. They’re faceless. My guess is that Facebook could have thousands of claims for any kind of imaginable dispute on any given day. How on earth could they provide support for that? That’s what a legal department is for. To reverse your argument, I don’t understand why so many developers are reluctant to speak to a lawyer. We don’t like speaking to lawyers, we don’t like speaking to marketers and salesmen, we don’t enjoy talking to accountants, and the list goes on. Well perhaps it’s time to man the fuck up and start acting like grownups. When there’s money involved consult someone with an expertise on the matter. Period.

I too don’t live in US. But I don’t think that’s US specific. It’s just that the sizes there are in most cases a lot bigger than everywhere else.

Re: Facebook seems not to be paying app developer $160K in ad revenue

#48

Post by LizardLarry » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 9:35 AM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #25

gubby wrote: post #21

I am not a lawyer. I think a mistake many people make in ongoing situations like these is contacting (and thereby deferring to) a companies 'support' channel. By asking them to reconsider, you almost subject yourself to their authority. If you believe you have a legal dispute, you should write to them officially, cc your legal advisor if you have one. Given the sums involved I would personally take professional legal…

I am not American. I read this sort of advice a lot here on HN and it always puzzles me. If I were to believe HN, the only way people ever do business in the US is through their lawyers. Or, at least, the moment there's some sort of misunderstanding or screwup there's always someone on HN who says "lawyer up!" and it's usually the top comment. Somehow, apparently, trying to sort things out the oldschool "hey we're bo…

America has a legal system made by lawyers for lawyers of lawyers.

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse..." is something said by a now dead and very naive man. When the "law" expands to something way beyond the ability of an average person to know and understand, you get carte blanche for abuse by both government and by corporations with legal teams.

In the Wild West, you bring a gun. In wild America, you bring a lawyer because all the other assholes are using them as weapons.

Re: Facebook seems not to be paying app developer $160K in ad revenue

#49

Post by timv » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 9:36 AM UTC

mysterypie wrote: post #39

zazpowered wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no he said it was USD

The original person (tihonovova) never said "USD". What you saw was someone else's (TheWhiteKnight's) comment on reddit. However, the original person did use the symbol "$" and his Facebook screenshots used "$". So I do agree with you that he and Facebook do mean US dollars. If it were Ukrainian currency, it would have said ₴160,000 or UAH160,000. Can someone from the Ukraine confirm that you would never write $160,0…

I quote

> tihonovova • 7h

> There are no ukrainian dollars. We have hryvna. I write about $160000 USD here.

https://m.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/570gco/facebook_s...

Re: Facebook seems not to be paying app developer $160K in ad revenue

#50

Post by erikb » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 9:36 AM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #25

gubby wrote: post #21

I am not a lawyer. I think a mistake many people make in ongoing situations like these is contacting (and thereby deferring to) a companies 'support' channel. By asking them to reconsider, you almost subject yourself to their authority. If you believe you have a legal dispute, you should write to them officially, cc your legal advisor if you have one. Given the sums involved I would personally take professional legal…

I am not American. I read this sort of advice a lot here on HN and it always puzzles me. If I were to believe HN, the only way people ever do business in the US is through their lawyers. Or, at least, the moment there's some sort of misunderstanding or screwup there's always someone on HN who says "lawyer up!" and it's usually the top comment. Somehow, apparently, trying to sort things out the oldschool "hey we're bo…

If there is more than 1000 USD/EUR involved you should get a lawyer to at least help you write the letters. That applies in most countries. You want to do that because: you want to be considered serious by the other party and not a joke, you don't want to miss deadlines, you don't want to give information to the other side that they can use against you, and you may trigger mistakes from the other side that then can be used against them in front of a judge, if it comes so far.

If someone owes you $160k you certainly want to get lawyers involved. There is no question. If your country has mafia instead of a law system, get the mafia involved. If you have a shaman get him involved. For that amount whoever can help you should get involved.