Getting it added to the driver's license test is probably the key here.
It would take decades for new drivers learning this technique to fully replace the current driving population. And I suspect most people wouldn't keep up the habit anyway.
The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
41–50 of 612 posts
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#42Getting doored is honestly terrifying (I don't say that lightly). I bike and longboard frequently, and I'll avoid bike lanes if they are alongside parked cars. And this is in Boulder, one of the most bike friendly cities in the US: http://www.bicycling.com/culture/advocacy/2014-top-50-bike-f...
I was doored once. I remember flying through the air and thinking, "oh, this isn't so bad." Then I landed and almost broke my hand.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#43Or, as a bike rider one can simply look into a cars cabin and see if a person is inside. I assume everyone is a terrible driver, have no idea I'm on the road. I am a regular bike commuter on traffic heavy Los Angeles. I'll never understand the mentality of bicyclists who are more concerned with asserting their rights as opposed to exercising caution and restraint. Graveyards are full of people who had the right of wa…
This is a reasonable approach when the world is full of hostile cars, but it doesn't have to be that way if drivers are more careful.
Some parts of town here riding a bike seems like attempting a trench run on the Death Star, there's innumerable hazards and if you're not hyper-aware of everything you will get smacked hard by one of them.
This is completely unacceptable. Nobody should have to maintain absolute situation awareness when cycling. You should be aware of your surroundings, but like walking it should be a fairly effortless process provided you keep your eyes open and scan your surroundings for possible problems.
Imagine if the road was littered with large, random spikes that would pop up out of nowhere without notice. Driving would require every scrap of your attention and would be exhausting even for short trips.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#44Getting it added to the driver's license test is probably the key here.
It would take decades for new drivers learning this technique to fully replace the current driving population. And I suspect most people wouldn't keep up the habit anyway.
I hate that argument; effectively it boils down to "it is hard, so why try anything at all?"
Even if it took thirty years and even if it was only ten percent effective, what is the negatives to this plan? One more minor skill to driving? One more bullet in the driving code?
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#45The problem is, dooring only affects the doorer after it happens. Most other traffic violations, like speeding, blowing stop signs, failure to yield, etc, can get you a ticket regardless of their outcome. Opening a car door into traffic, in Chicago at least, puts you at fault but there's no getting a ticket for not looking. There's only a ticket after your action causes an injury.
Obviously, we can't have police ticketing everyone parallel parking for not looking in their mirror, so we think we need to attack this from an education perspective alone.
I propose instead, we stop trying to segregate bikes into lanes that they don't fit into! Good bike lanes have a buffer between cars that makes dooring almost impossible.
Bad:
|B|C
Good:
|B|\|C
Where B = Bike and C = car and slashes and pipes = paint on the roads.
Or, if you prefer an image: http://nacto.org/wp-content/uploads/gallery/bufferedlane_3d/...
Or even better: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3746/9711441935_3df2f28926.jpg
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#46Getting it added to the driver's license test is probably the key here.
Using your blinker is a requirement in the driver's license test, too. So is driving with your hands 10-2, coming to a complete stop at all stop signs, and driving the speed limit.
I don't think adding something to a driver's test is going to change much.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cyclists are already second class citizens on the roads. People who ride bikes are upset about this and would prefer not to become third or fourth class. It's also very frustrating to have to assume everyone is so ignorant that they wouldn't mind accidentally killing you for the sake of saving a second or two. I completely agree that being aggressively paranoid is the way to stay alive. But agreeing that it is the sm…
> Cyclists are already second class citizens on the roads. People who ride bikes are upset about this and would prefer not to become third or fourth class. It's also very frustrating to have to assume everyone is so ignorant that they wouldn't mind accidentally killing you for the sake of saving a second or two. I'll bite. Any cyclist who rides on the sidewalk, runs a red light, or flaunts traffic convention in gener…
I'll agree about cyclists on the sidewalk. They give all cyclists a bad name because it is needlessly dangerous.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#48Right, Large scale change of driver habits is a simple solution... a more enforcable suggestion is that the car owner is by default liable for any damages that happen from dooring, and that dooring is a fineable offence. Give car owners a real motivacion to check for bikes
It already is the law and a fine-able offense in most states. Unless you have doored someone or had it done to you, most people are just not thinking about it.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cyclists are already second class citizens on the roads. People who ride bikes are upset about this and would prefer not to become third or fourth class. It's also very frustrating to have to assume everyone is so ignorant that they wouldn't mind accidentally killing you for the sake of saving a second or two. I completely agree that being aggressively paranoid is the way to stay alive. But agreeing that it is the sm…
> Cyclists are already second class citizens on the roads. People who ride bikes are upset about this and would prefer not to become third or fourth class. It's also very frustrating to have to assume everyone is so ignorant that they wouldn't mind accidentally killing you for the sake of saving a second or two. I'll bite. Any cyclist who rides on the sidewalk, runs a red light, or flaunts traffic convention in gener…
> Any cyclist who rides on the sidewalk, runs a red light, or flaunts traffic convention in general absolutely deserves to be treated as a second class citizen.
As does any motorist who drives above the speed limit? Or any pedestrian that crosses with a red signal?
Different modes of transport place different importance on different rules, out of both safety and inconvenience. It's not cyclists breaking the rules - it's everyone, but you think of it as "traffic convention" when it's the rules that you/cars like to break.
(Also interesting: cyclists jumping red lights may be safer - https://www.rudi.net/node/16395)
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Riding on the sidewalk, for short distances and with a good reason, can be done safely and courteously, though it may require slowing to walking speed. How many car drivers never exceed the speed limit and always come to a complete stop at stop signs? Your absolutism should apply in both directions, no?
I wouldn't have to be rude if cyclists rode at walking speed safely and courteously. Some cyclists are incredibly self-entitled. Of course, I think we need stiff penalties for cars hitting cyclists. However, cyclists need to know they are second class citizens on the side walk. Yes, cars not coming to a full stop is a problem. But saying something else us wrong doesn't make me right. I'm glad you guys have a hug box…
>>> I'll bite. Any cyclist who rides on the sidewalk, runs a red light, or flaunts traffic convention in general absolutely deserves to be treated as a second class citizen. Your wheels don't belong on the sidewalk. I'm sorry if I sound rude.
> But saying something else us wrong doesn't make me right.
So are you saying that because cyclists do wrong stuff, cars can also do wrong stuff?
Or are you contradicting yourself when convenient so that you can attempt to win an argument?
Your statements are not terribly self-coherent.