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How should mathematics be taught to non-mathematicians? (2012)

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Re: How should mathematics be taught to non-mathematicians? (2012)

#41
post #35

If anyone cares to share, I'd love to hear some opinions about at what point someone switches from "non-mathematician" status to "mathematician" status.

I think you switch to a non-mathematician as soon as you proclaim your hate for mathematics. I don't like seeing 'mathematics' as some kind of specialist activity that only a specific group of people is capable of.

Re: How should mathematics be taught to non-mathematicians? (2012)

#42
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of being sarcastic, the suggestion seems to be that mathematics is best taught through stereotypical management consulting interview questions. Or the apocryphal (?) Google interview questions like how many ping pong balls can fit on a bus. ADDED: I also suspect that the average high school student lacks the world knowledge to come up with meaningful guestimates for the inputs to many of those questions.…

Unfortunately, probability and stats are not easy to teach, and even many professional scientists / researchers have major confusions about the subjects. Common sense actually provides a decent enough guide for most people (i.e a baseball player with a high batting average is more likely to hit the ball). Euclidean geometry as taught in school does seem rather archaic and out of place though. Some people say it's an…

How is learning facts about the space we all live in is "out of place"? Geometry continues to be extremely useful. In fact, in its generalized forms it is one of the most important parts of the modern mathematical thought. If anything, for a mathematically inclined student learning geometry, I imagine, would be much more both instructive and fun, than some "first order logic".

Re: How should mathematics be taught to non-mathematicians? (2012)

#43
post #35

If anyone cares to share, I'd love to hear some opinions about at what point someone switches from "non-mathematician" status to "mathematician" status.

When you mentally translate theories and discussions from words to equations rather than equations to words.

Re: How should mathematics be taught to non-mathematicians? (2012)

#44
post #35

If anyone cares to share, I'd love to hear some opinions about at what point someone switches from "non-mathematician" status to "mathematician" status.

In the context given in the article it sounds like non-mathematicians are students who choose to stop maths at age sixteen, presumably for the rest of their lives. This reflects the observation that children are born mathematicians and explorers and remain so until something kills their curiosity (often school is named as the culprit).

Re: How should mathematics be taught to non-mathematicians? (2012)

#45
Teaching mathematics has two aspects, or goals, that are largely not related to one another. One is teaching mathematical methods as a computational tool, as used in a certain area of expertise (such as, for instance, electrical engineering). The other one is teaching how to do mathematics, i.e. how to generalize facts, find efficient proofs and algorithms, etc.

Re: How should mathematics be taught to non-mathematicians? (2012)

#46
Do other disciplines ask similar questions?

How should physics be taught to non-physicists?

How should writing be taught to non-writers?

How should car maintenance be taught to non-mechanics?

I guess my point is, why should we teach mathematics any differently to "non-mathematicians" than we do to "mathematicians"? I mean, at the point when you're first teaching someone, how do you even know if they're a "non-mathematician" or a "mathematician"? After all, they haven't learned enough yet to know if they'd want to continue in that field of study.

Re: How should mathematics be taught to non-mathematicians? (2012)

#47
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, probability and stats are not easy to teach, and even many professional scientists / researchers have major confusions about the subjects. Common sense actually provides a decent enough guide for most people (i.e a baseball player with a high batting average is more likely to hit the ball). Euclidean geometry as taught in school does seem rather archaic and out of place though. Some people say it's an…

How is learning facts about the space we all live in is "out of place"? Geometry continues to be extremely useful. In fact, in its generalized forms it is one of the most important parts of the modern mathematical thought. If anything, for a mathematically inclined student learning geometry, I imagine, would be much more both instructive and fun, than some "first order logic".

well I can only speak to my own experience. personally I really enjoyed geometry but can't say the same for most students

Re: How should mathematics be taught to non-mathematicians? (2012)

#48
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what bunch of high school students wouldn't want an IT class that taught compiler design The majority of high school students can hardly wrap their brains around the AP curriculum (probably for lack of time or effort, rather than ability). There are some that are honestly, actually interested in computer science and are thus capable of stuff like that... but they are low in number. What might be able to work is a f…

A course designed around using a particular "modern" web technology stack will have to change too often (every time it doesn't become "modern" anymore) for it to be sustainable. Imagine that in 2016 you have a course centered around using what was modern in 2006. That would inevitably happen with a course like that. I'd rather teach programming from 0 to making a really basic 2D game (be it in C++ or Python or whatev…

I love games as an introduction to programming. But then you have to teach kids how to do collisions (or physics), you have to teach them how to keep track of multiple sprites that behave the same but are in different places at the same time (I'm talking about classes, yes), and it's harder to point to a "real world" usage of game programming... which makes it harder to get your course approved.

I know, teaching today's web standards means they'll be out of date within the next ten years. But I believe the improvement of the web is asymptotic and will slowly come to a halt in the coming years... that and I would never forgive myself for not refreshing a course when it's too old to be applied to the real world, as a pragmatist. Finally, I don't think Vue will beat React too quickly.

(I'm not an educator, but I've spoken with a few on some of these topics.)

Re: How should mathematics be taught to non-mathematicians? (2012)

#49
post #10

When you consider how mathematics, an understanding of probability, and so on enhances your ability to see through bullshit in advertising, government, and to some extent religions (not faith, just religions); it's not hard to understand why so many people are not thrilled at the notion.

Why exclude faith? For PC sake?

Not many people change their foundational epistemic stance in response to mathematical arguments.

Re: How should mathematics be taught to non-mathematicians? (2012)

#50
post #46

Do other disciplines ask similar questions? How should physics be taught to non-physicists? How should writing be taught to non-writers? How should car maintenance be taught to non-mechanics? I guess my point is, why should we teach mathematics any differently to "non-mathematicians" than we do to "mathematicians"? I mean, at the point when you're first teaching someone, how do you even know if they're a "non-mathema…

Maybe this is an unpopular view, but I think there is something unnatural about mathematics for most people. It tends to be much more abstract than other subjects. I say this as someone who has always enjoyed math and majored in it.

And it does make sense to have "math for mathematicians" or "physics for physicists" classes. You see this a lot in college (often intro classes are divided into different "levels"). This allows some students to accelerate and others to still learn relevant materials but at a more appropriate pace.

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