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We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

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Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#41

Post by roel_v »

huherto wrote: post #22
weezer wrote: post #11

I don't condone conditions like this, but everyone should be able to put this in the context of the general standard of living in China. I've been to dorms in Chinese Universities and they don't look much different from the dorms these workers live in. The average income per person is $6,600, but still 10% of China's population, mostly rural people, live on less than $1 a day. (There are some very rich people in the…

Very good comment. They are better off with these jobs than without them. Still, they should have some basic working conditions. Such as max 45hrs a week. 2 week vacation a year, etc.

Right, because working more than 45 hours a week is a crime against humanity and here in the civilized West nobody ever works more than that rollseyes

I have a cushy office job but the friends from my adolescent years are now mostly blue collar.workers. Those who have their own businesses (one-man shops: plumbing, construction contractors, painters, those type of jobs) work 50 to 60 hours a week, plus client meetings and paperwork in the evenings and on Sundays. Those who work in factories work regular weeks of 40 hours and they put "Yay! I'm getting overtime!" statuses on their facebook pages when they get to work another 10 or so hours, either during the week (evenings) or on Saturdays. Of course sometimes they complain too when their boss asks them to work on the day after a big soccer game or whatever and when they had rather slept in, but in general the overtime is what makes the pay quite good - so it is mostly considered a perk to get to work overtime.

That is in Belgium, if that matters.

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#43

Post by dgallagher »

Industrial Revolution repeating itself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution#Social_ef...

Is a phase like this required for developing nations to pass through? Specifically, large developing nations? Or could it be skipped, or at least have its negative human effects mitigated?

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#44

Post by jhancock »

potatolicious wrote: post #16

This article, IMHO, is written by someone who has no idea how things work just about anywhere that's not the industrialized West, and is shocked and appalled that things aren't as awesome as they are in the US of A. It's a also a reminder for those of us who live in such ridiculous comfort and freedom that it can get much, much worse. That being said, I think this article is sensationalist tripe: > "The idea that ‘wi…

Your comments are pretty fair and your feelings on what your family went through in '60s Taiwan I take as genuine.

However, it was not only hard work that bootstrapped Taiwan out of poverty. Some part of Taiwan's current comfort is due to moving its most extreme labor and environmental problems to other Asian countries, namely China. So now China and a few others are at the bottom of the supply chain...who do they pass the buck to to lift themselves out of these conditions?

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#45

Post by r0s »

potatolicious wrote: post #16

This article, IMHO, is written by someone who has no idea how things work just about anywhere that's not the industrialized West, and is shocked and appalled that things aren't as awesome as they are in the US of A. It's a also a reminder for those of us who live in such ridiculous comfort and freedom that it can get much, much worse. That being said, I think this article is sensationalist tripe: > "The idea that ‘wi…

many are doing this only as a means to something else - education, rescuing family from poverty, etc

Well this is the crux right here, we can't put something like this is context without good data. Do these workers actually make a living wage? What is the cost of living in this part of the world, and most importantly, do any workers actually escape poverty over time? Things like these can be measured, and we should demand more from any news source.

I happen to disagree with your point of view, but it's meaningless if all we have is conjecture based on personal experience.

Edit: If your personal experience is actually from that level of poverty in that particular part of the world, then please, by all means, tell us what it's like.

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#46

Post by roel_v »

dkimball wrote: post #37

The defensiveness of some of these comments is unsettling. Inhumane conditions are inhumane no matter where they are, and no matter what the situation is in the society; it is never right to do to one's workers what this article is describing, not even if there's a lot of competition for their jobs. This is the kind of thing that explains why the United States is not lassiez-faire capitalist anymore; and it emphasize…

Pray tell, what is it exactly about the conditions described in the article that is "inhumane"? I don't see anywhere that people are being forced to work more than 8 hours, on the contrary it clearly states that overtime is optional. Most of the points that are made in the article are standard practice in factories here in Western Europe, like timed bathroom breaks, can't use phones while working etc.

The photos are misleading too, at least the ones with the people sleeping on the assembly line. While unusual in the West, in my (admittedly limited) experience with Asia (and China in particular) it is much more normal and culturally accepted to take a quick nap during breaks, while waiting for a train/bus, .. anywhere where there are a few spare minutes. This article makes it seem like these people are whipped to work until they literally fall asleep on the assembly line.

I'm not saying that there are no cases of abuse of factory workers; I'm pretty sure there are, and I in no way want to defend those. I live in an area where there were documented instances of people being whipped if they didn't cut coal fast enough, as little as 150 years ago, and that is a black spot in our history. However if this article describes the worst factory they could find, and if the situation that is described is the worst possible description of reality, it seems to me that capitalism has given these people something that they could only have wished for 50 years ago.

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#47

Post by hugh3 »

rubyrescue wrote: post #14

How do people who are appalled by this not contribute to it without exiting the world of technology altogether? I can't imagine the factories for Apple or Dell are any better... Is there a "no-sweatshop" watchdog organization for tech that says what equipment is manufactured in better conditions?

So forget Apple and Dell and stick to "Made in Japan" stuff.

I think most Japanese companies still build at least their high-end stuff in Japan since the Japanese market can be picky about this kind of thing.

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#48

Post by [deleted] »

peterwwillis wrote: post #31

14 and 15 year olds should not be working in sweatshops. what the hell is wrong with the people defending this? this isn't the pampered western worker vs the average 3rd world worker, this is kids being forced to go without sleep and effectively without a life for pennies. fuck that. i know most people will argue something like "they are probably lucky to get it." it's still bad for them, and trying to justify the ba…

[deleted]

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#49

Post by randrews »

abentspoon wrote: post #28
potatolicious wrote: post #16

This article, IMHO, is written by someone who has no idea how things work just about anywhere that's not the industrialized West, and is shocked and appalled that things aren't as awesome as they are in the US of A. It's a also a reminder for those of us who live in such ridiculous comfort and freedom that it can get much, much worse. That being said, I think this article is sensationalist tripe: > "The idea that ‘wi…

Yes. The article was full of this. > All workers must trim their fingernails so as not to impede production. > Workers are strictly prohibited from entering any work area other than their own. > Workers describe factory food as awful. Teenagers complaining about cafeteria food? Really? I'm sure conditions are bad, but the article is trying too hard. As bad as things are, the boy interviewed comes back each night for…

According to the rules:

> When the manager arranges overtime, employees are not allowed secretly or openly to avoid overtime if they do not have permission.

Not exactly "voluntary" overtime.

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#50

Post by pyre »

potatolicious wrote: post #16

This article, IMHO, is written by someone who has no idea how things work just about anywhere that's not the industrialized West, and is shocked and appalled that things aren't as awesome as they are in the US of A. It's a also a reminder for those of us who live in such ridiculous comfort and freedom that it can get much, much worse. That being said, I think this article is sensationalist tripe: > "The idea that ‘wi…

  >> "Security guards search workers' bags and pockets
  >> as they leave the factory."
  >
  > Same in the USA, especially in warehousing/supply
  > chain jobs.
You're also forgetting casino workers. The people in casinos that handle money are all required for to have whatever purses/bags they bring to work be transparent (usually plastic). I've seen the same thing for workers at airports too. [ I was sitting at Newark in the middle of the night once and a ton of workers came into the terminal from an employees-only door and all of them had clear plastic purses and backpacks. ]

{edit} I was sitting at the airport waiting to talk to an airline rep about getting on the next plane out. I was caught up in this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6... and missed my connecting flight (since it was cancelled due to the terminal being locked down).

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