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Introducing a new kind of Wi-Fi system

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Re: Introducing a new kind of Wi-Fi system

#41

Post by dragonwriter »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #35
the_watcher wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the internet not working in general. These routers are about dead spots in places that have functional internet already. It's a pretty common problem that absolutely does exist.

I live in downtown Manhattan and have that problem, but like OP asked, I don't think it's a huge enough problem to warrant a separate router just for the purpose. Most people simply use the router rented out from their internet provider (for free), and in most cases just make it work somehow (instead of buying a new device just for routing they would rather acknowledge that wifi doesn't work well in some parts of the…

> Most people simply use the router rented out from their internet provider (for free), and in most cases just make it work somehow (instead of buying a new device just for routing they would rather acknowledge that wifi doesn't work well in some parts of the apartment and live with it). Sure sometimes it's shitty and I have to reboot it to get it to work again, but I can live with it if it's not too often.

OTOH, for lots of people the cost of a new router is a small fraction of even a years ISP service, so if it significantly improves performance of the internet service you are paying for monthly, and is usable for several years, its worth it.

Re: Introducing a new kind of Wi-Fi system

#42

Post by Animats »

Lots of vendors already offer this. It's pretty standard for commercial WiFi units. It's just slightly more expensive than dumb routers.

* Eero: https://eero.com/

* Ubuquiti: https://www.ubnt.com

* Cisco: http://www.cisco.com (sized for larger buildings)

Does this new Google device come with the Google Fi feature which backhauls all your traffic to Google via a VPN?

Re: Introducing a new kind of Wi-Fi system

#43

Post by some-guy »

calinet6 wrote: post #3

Serious question: whose WiFi is not working, to the degree that they think, "I really need to get a modern router to make this Internet thing actually work." I'm seeing about a dozen fancy modern wifi routers all trying to solve a problem I'm not sure exists.

I had wireless issues in an urban area (Downtown Oakland) where every router I tried had 10% packet loss in the 2.4Ghz band (5Ghz band was fine, but less coverage).

We got an Eero to try to fix the coverage problem (I lived with several housemates), but it didn't let us choose between 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz, it would switch dynamically. Certain IoT devices we had were 2.4Ghz and worked intermittently. No matter what router we used, no matter how expensive, the issue there never went away. There were ways to force the 5Ghz band on the client side using some BSSID hacks, but it was cumbersome. So we had to switch back to a single router setup with two networks, one 2.4Ghz and one 5Ghz, and urge people to only use the 2.4Ghz network if absolutely necessary.

I live elsewhere now and use a cheap 802.11ac TP-Link router without any issues in a house for a 200mbps connection.

Re: Introducing a new kind of Wi-Fi system

#44

Post by captn3m0 »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #24
calinet6 wrote: post #3

Serious question: whose WiFi is not working, to the degree that they think, "I really need to get a modern router to make this Internet thing actually work." I'm seeing about a dozen fancy modern wifi routers all trying to solve a problem I'm not sure exists.

I used to have wifi issues, but then I bought one of the UniFi Long Range wifi models. I really can't imagine a house that would not be entirely serviced by a single one of those. I still get 3 bars on my iPhone 30 meters down my driveway, let alone in the house. I got one because we use them at work, and I was still getting usable internet in a supermarket 100 meters from my office across a parking lot. They are des…

UniFi LRs are really great, however I found it hard to get hold of the 5GHz ones.

Re: Introducing a new kind of Wi-Fi system

#45

Post by dragonwriter »

ebf6 wrote: post #28

> The system uses a technology called mesh Wi-Fi (something usually only seen in expensive commercial installations). This is misleading. You can create your own mesh networks with several off-the-shelf routers / access points using open source software like batman-advanced [0]. [0] https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/batman-adv/wiki

I don't think its misleading to anyone -- the kind of people to whom aftermarket open source software for routers is a reasonable solution won't be misled, and its completely accurate for the people for whom what comes built in with the router is the only thing of interest.

Re: Introducing a new kind of Wi-Fi system

#46

Post by teacup50 »

peterbonney wrote: post #29
calinet6 wrote: post #3

Serious question: whose WiFi is not working, to the degree that they think, "I really need to get a modern router to make this Internet thing actually work." I'm seeing about a dozen fancy modern wifi routers all trying to solve a problem I'm not sure exists.

In my NYC apartment, the physical WAN connection is in a rather unfortunate location. There's no good spot to place a router in the center of the apartment, and no unobtrusive way to run cable there if there was such a spot. As a result I have to choose between a wifi dead zone in my bedroom, or a strategically located repeater. I've chosen the latter. If I lived in a less dense area, in a wood-framed house of the sa…

Unless you have lead walls, a ~1000 sq ft apartment should be fully covered by a single access point.

The problem in NYC is that there's just too much band crowding; adding more access points is only going to provide an improvement (if any at all) until everyone else does it, too, and then it's going to be worse for everyone.

We really need better solutions for extremely high-density deployment of competing WiFi networks.

Re: Introducing a new kind of Wi-Fi system

#47

Post by thescriptkiddie »

Apreche wrote: post #14

You can tell this product is made by people who live in suburban McMansions. In a 1 BR NYC apartment, you have no problems with wifi coverage.

To be fair, if you live in a masonry building or even a particularly thick-walled reinforced concrete building, you might have trouble covering all of the rooms of a 2-3 bedroom apartment with a single AP.

Re: Introducing a new kind of Wi-Fi system

#48

Post by ebf6 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #45
ebf6 wrote: post #28

> The system uses a technology called mesh Wi-Fi (something usually only seen in expensive commercial installations). This is misleading. You can create your own mesh networks with several off-the-shelf routers / access points using open source software like batman-advanced [0]. [0] https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/batman-adv/wiki

I don't think its misleading to anyone -- the kind of people to whom aftermarket open source software for routers is a reasonable solution won't be misled, and its completely accurate for the people for whom what comes built in with the router is the only thing of interest.

But that's different from saying "something usually only seen in expensive commercial installations". And it is still misleading, accuracy of some information has nothing to do with what someone is looking for (a self-contained, plug-and-play mesh network).

Re: Introducing a new kind of Wi-Fi system

#49

Post by drzaiusapelord »

Animats wrote: post #42

Lots of vendors already offer this. It's pretty standard for commercial WiFi units. It's just slightly more expensive than dumb routers. * Eero: https://eero.com/ * Ubuquiti: https://www.ubnt.com * Cisco: http://www.cisco.com (sized for larger buildings) Does this new Google device come with the Google Fi feature which backhauls all your traffic to Google via a VPN?

No. It comes with pretty much nothing but a nice little price break. You get a 3-pack for $299. The Eero 3-pack is $499.00. This is a serious price break in this market, which is currently over-priced. You can get 3 Ubiquities for almost $300. A lot less user friendly, but $500 for 3 units is holding back mass adoption.

Personally, for my home I need just two units. Shame there's no $199 2-pack yet. It would be an instant buy for me.

Re: Introducing a new kind of Wi-Fi system

#50

Post by dragonwriter »

ebf6 wrote: post #48
dragonwriter wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think its misleading to anyone -- the kind of people to whom aftermarket open source software for routers is a reasonable solution won't be misled, and its completely accurate for the people for whom what comes built in with the router is the only thing of interest.

But that's different from saying "something usually only seen in expensive commercial installations". And it is still misleading, accuracy of some information has nothing to do with what someone is looking for (a self-contained, plug-and-play mesh network).

> But that's different from saying "something usually only seen in expensive commercial installations".

No, its not. The fact that there are inexpensive alternative means by which it can be deployed, and by which certain segments of the population can and do deploy it, doesn't make it any less true that it is usually only seen in expensive commercial installations.

> And it is still misleading if it tends to mislead one group of people more than another group.

I don't think it tends to mislead any group at all. I think that the group to whom the exceptions to the "usual" case accurately described here is relevant will be well aware of it and so not misled, and the group who is not interested will also not be misled by the accurate statement, even though they are likely to be less aware of the nature of the alternative.

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