A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it • Hacker News Board

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#41

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 9:24 PM UTC

djtriptych wrote: post #39

sidlls wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are beastly, violent primates with marginal cognitive advantages over our cousins. Empathy is learned. I don't know if a 12 year old is more likely to kill than a 30 year old, but the former certainly has had much less social normalization toward empathy than the older one, other things being equal. Also kids are easily guided to do just about anything. They're easily impressed and even the brightest lack the…

No, healthy people are born with empathy. Which is why childhood animal mutilation is a standard test for sociopathy.

> No, healthy people are born with empathy.

Most of the reading I've done seems to suggest that that's something that's developed at a very young age, and very sensitive to early childhood environment, rather something people are born with.

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#42

Post by SmokyBorbon » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 9:30 PM UTC

wbl wrote: post #32

snake117 wrote: post #15

My physiology professor told our class to never donate, especially at our age group (18-23). His presentation included some of the complications listed in the article. However, his reasoning was straightforward: Assuming a long lifespan, if you are in the position with your only kidney failing, you're screwed. He was speaking generally of course. Not every situation has an easy solution and Poulson took a noble route…

Kidneys tend to not fail independently. Most failures are the result of systemic causes.

Like age? We know you gave up a kidney when you were 18 but you're 60 now and don't have any tax-paying years left so we're just going to let you die.

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#43

Post by 51Cards » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 9:34 PM UTC

Honest question. It sounds like the recipient was older so if something were to happen to them (passing from old age, etc) would it be possible to move the kidney back? After all it would be a perfect match... still the same age as the donor, and as long as it hasn't been compromised in any way should still function well.

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#44

Post by djtriptych » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 9:34 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #41

djtriptych wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, healthy people are born with empathy. Which is why childhood animal mutilation is a standard test for sociopathy.

> No, healthy people are born with empathy. Most of the reading I've done seems to suggest that that's something that's developed at a very young age, and very sensitive to early childhood environment, rather something people are born with.

It's a normal part of childhood development. The original comment suggests that hate is inborn and empathy is learned - no real evidence for that.

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#45

Post by sidlls » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 9:36 PM UTC

djtriptych wrote: post #39

sidlls wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are beastly, violent primates with marginal cognitive advantages over our cousins. Empathy is learned. I don't know if a 12 year old is more likely to kill than a 30 year old, but the former certainly has had much less social normalization toward empathy than the older one, other things being equal. Also kids are easily guided to do just about anything. They're easily impressed and even the brightest lack the…

No, healthy people are born with empathy. Which is why childhood animal mutilation is a standard test for sociopathy.

No, healthy people learn empathy, they aren't born being empathetic. They should learn it very early, and certainly should demonstrate some empathy by the time pre-K rolls around.

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#46

Post by M_Grey » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 9:36 PM UTC

djtriptych wrote: post #39

sidlls wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are beastly, violent primates with marginal cognitive advantages over our cousins. Empathy is learned. I don't know if a 12 year old is more likely to kill than a 30 year old, but the former certainly has had much less social normalization toward empathy than the older one, other things being equal. Also kids are easily guided to do just about anything. They're easily impressed and even the brightest lack the…

No, healthy people are born with empathy. Which is why childhood animal mutilation is a standard test for sociopathy.

It's not a test, it's not diagnostic, it's part of a hypothetical triad of indicators, in the context of an adult's childhood history. You can't even diagnose a child as antisocial, at best you'd have "Conduct Disorder".

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#47

Post by pdq » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 9:46 PM UTC

This is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way as unethical, but the best way to incentivize organ donation is if the donors get paid a market price for the organ. The donor is giving up a valuable piece of their body, taking time and large medical risks in surgery, and likely reduced life expectancy.

If you walk through the current process, everyone in the donation gets paid -- doctors, nurses, hospital, pharma -- except the donor.

There are a number of advantages of donors getting paid:

1. The supply market would increase dramatically. Thus many more people receiving organs who would have otherwise died waiting.

2. Heirs to people who have died young, with healthy organs could get paid for donating their organs.

3. Black markets would be dramatically reduced, since people in desperate need of an organ could pay in the open, rather than secretly paying a donor.

4. People without money can legally open a Kickstarter to raise funds for an organ donation.

Note Iran has partially done this, and the results have been very positive [1].

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1819484/

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#48

Post by timecube » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 9:52 PM UTC

pdq wrote: post #47

This is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way as unethical, but the best way to incentivize organ donation is if the donors get paid a market price for the organ. The donor is giving up a valuable piece of their body, taking time and large medical risks in surgery, and likely reduced life expectancy. If you walk through the current process, everyone in the donation gets paid -- doctors, nurses, hospital, pharma…

A big issue with allowing organ markets is that impoverished people can practically be forced to sell their organs.

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#49

Post by brianjolney » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 9:54 PM UTC

dexterdog wrote: post #35

This may be a dumb question, but why are previous kidney donors not given a free pass to the top of the recipient list if they have a problem with their remaining kidney?

Seems like the way to solve this, without opening up market pricing for them. In theory, this would create a marketplace where supply outstrips demand.

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#50

Post by pkaye » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 9:57 PM UTC

dexterdog wrote: post #35

This may be a dumb question, but why are previous kidney donors not given a free pass to the top of the recipient list if they have a problem with their remaining kidney?

They do get priority. But there is still issue of compatibility. And one still needs to take a lifetime of medicines. I myself found my kidneys were failing recently and did a lot of research.