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Senate panel authorizes money for Mars mission, shuttle replacement

usatoday.com

41–50 of 56 posts

Re: Senate panel authorizes money for Mars mission, shuttle replacement

#41
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But would NASA out-perform a research university with the same budget, tasked with addressing the aforementioned problem/solutions directly rather than incidentally?

Yes. NASA is drastically different from an academic institution and the difference in administrative culture alone allows it to be a more effective multidisciplinary research organization working on everything from pure science to industrial ready technologies. For example, Black and Decker developed the first cordless vacuum after their engineers got an idea while working on cordless drills with NASA in the same res…

This is a really well-informed comment and I wanted to say something else in support of it.

A Caltech scientist who had worked with DOE and NASA labs made an offhand comment about the kind of work that those labs are suited to do that stuck with me - he said they should be trying to solve problems that are "national lab hard" - kind of a play on NP-hard.

What he meant is that these environments are suited to solving complex cross-discipline engineering/science problems ("make the right measurements to understand the climate system", or "find the processes and materials to make air travel safer", or "put a huge infrared telescope in space").

These are not problems that are suited to a university research structure. They don't get solved with $300K/year grants, small collections of discipline-focused PIs, and transient grad students.

Re: Senate panel authorizes money for Mars mission, shuttle replacement

#42
post #39
post #26

At least they want to fund the Commercial Crew project. Space-X should have sent a manned Dragon capsule to the ISS by now. There seems to be political pressure to hold them back until ULA can catch up. (Space-X now claims they know why they had a pad explosion. They're saying "breach in the helium system".[1] But what caused that? What part has to be changed? This just came out a few hours ago, so the details are la…

Word on the street (read r/SpaceX) is it was caused by a failing COPV.

What is COPV

Re: Senate panel authorizes money for Mars mission, shuttle replacement

#43
post #39
post #26

At least they want to fund the Commercial Crew project. Space-X should have sent a manned Dragon capsule to the ISS by now. There seems to be political pressure to hold them back until ULA can catch up. (Space-X now claims they know why they had a pad explosion. They're saying "breach in the helium system".[1] But what caused that? What part has to be changed? This just came out a few hours ago, so the details are la…

Word on the street (read r/SpaceX) is it was caused by a failing COPV.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_overwrapped_pressure...

Re: Senate panel authorizes money for Mars mission, shuttle replacement

#44

Perhaps I'm a bit cynical, but space exploration strikes me as a waste of money and energy. The universe is clearly no good for space travel, otherwise we would witness aliens visiting us. It's empty and hostile. This planet is the only realistic long-term home. Sure, space stuff gets kids into science, but I wonder how many more kids we would get into science by investing billions of dollars in education instead. We…

I'm a researcher who works on fighting antimicrobial resistant bacteria.

The reason I got into science is because space is cool. Also, we've sent robots to Mars and the photos show it's just dust...and maybe water.

Re: Senate panel authorizes money for Mars mission, shuttle replacement

#45
post #5
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keeping something launched into LEO 1998 in operation for 26+ years seems to be pushing it. Many parts have been replaced over time, but the shell is in a very harsh environment. Hopefully with the modular nature they should be able to let old sections go.

My worry here is that if ISS gets shut down completely without another station being already at least partially in orbit, there won't be enough political will to start another project like that.

That would be an ideal outcome. The ISS is a huge resource sink compared to the kinds of unmanned probes that could be launched at a fraction of its budget.

Re: Senate panel authorizes money for Mars mission, shuttle replacement

#47
post #7
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the International Space Station (ISS) is the ISS. It was an exercise in 80s and 90s design, and you could launch an equally capable science platform at a lower cost than refurbishing the current station. One of the main reasons why NASA is reluctant to replace the existing station is that they are afraid that the program would get cancelled, and they will be left with no station.

Also the I part of ISS kept the world space research orbiting around NASA. For example Brazil make every single research that requires a station (including vehicles, modules and medical science) use the ISS. Without the ISS Brazil could for example attempt its own station, or help China instead. NASA is very powerful, but if everyone help China or Russia instead, it would be bad for USA strategically.

> Without the ISS Brazil could for example attempt its own station, or help China instead.

Are you kidding me? Brazil does not even have launch capabilities and may never have. It's "space agency" employs 6 people, including a typist.

Re: Senate panel authorizes money for Mars mission, shuttle replacement

#48

Perhaps I'm a bit cynical, but space exploration strikes me as a waste of money and energy. The universe is clearly no good for space travel, otherwise we would witness aliens visiting us. It's empty and hostile. This planet is the only realistic long-term home. Sure, space stuff gets kids into science, but I wonder how many more kids we would get into science by investing billions of dollars in education instead. We…

> Perhaps I'm a bit cynical, but space exploration strikes me as a waste of money and energy.

Yes, because the "defense" budget is a much better use of resources. The NASA budget is a rounding error in comparison.

There is enough money. Money dedicated to space exploration is well spent.

> We know enough about space for now

Says who? Perhaps you need to do some more research.

Re: Senate panel authorizes money for Mars mission, shuttle replacement

#49

Perhaps I'm a bit cynical, but space exploration strikes me as a waste of money and energy. The universe is clearly no good for space travel, otherwise we would witness aliens visiting us. It's empty and hostile. This planet is the only realistic long-term home. Sure, space stuff gets kids into science, but I wonder how many more kids we would get into science by investing billions of dollars in education instead. We…

> Perhaps I'm a bit cynical, but space exploration strikes me as a waste of money and energy. Yes, because the "defense" budget is a much better use of resources. The NASA budget is a rounding error in comparison. There is enough money. Money dedicated to space exploration is well spent. > We know enough about space for now Says who? Perhaps you need to do some more research.

> There is enough money. Money dedicated to space exploration is well spent.

How do you figure? We have plenty to research on earth for a fraction the cost. What makes you say space exploration will give a better return?

Re: Senate panel authorizes money for Mars mission, shuttle replacement

#50
post #8

The worst part of this news is the continuation of the Space Launch System (SLS), which has cost over seven billion dollars (not including Ares development costs), and is expected to end up costing forty-one billion by 2025, by which time they expect to complete a total of four launches (destination: nowhere important, and probably late). Vulcan (from ULA), New Glenn (from Blue Origin), and Falcon Heavy (from SpaceX)…

Vulcan, New Glenn, and the Falcon Heavy really aren't in the same league as the SLS, at least as far as lifting capacity is concerned.

I think the SLS is an excellent use of NASA's time and money at the moment. They're using proven technology to build a system that they can either:

- fall back on in the event that commercial companies aren't able to deliver something comparable

- still act as a viable launch platform if cheaper alternatives are somehow disabled (e.g. another Falcon failure)

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