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New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

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Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#41

Post by visarga »

Annatar wrote: post #4
blazespin wrote: post #2

This will create massive pressure on the price of oil. Why would anyone in their right mind not try to sell it off as fast as possible as it won't be worth much in a few years.

Because right now, batteries last only about one year and need to be replaced after that (I have lots of bad experience there), and because right now, my calculations show that for a 35,000 investement, the panels have to last 13 years before one breaks even, unless one lives in a sunny area. The problem is that the current solar technology isn't very good yet: the panels constantly lose capacity as they generate ele…

> That's why oil is going to stay with us for a few more decades.

In a couple of decades we might also have fusion power, and this time it's probably going to work because we have much better superconductor magnets. We can make the whole reactor much smaller.

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#42

Post by qoobaa »

nickff wrote: post #34
qoobaa wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very good question. I always thought that it's because of technical difficulties when transmitting electricity over long distances, but it turns out we already do it well (HVDC). When you think about it on a continent scale: why not move all PV panels from Germany to sunnier regions of Europe like Spain or Portugal where you can generate twice more power with them (in average 200 W/m² instead of 100 W/m²). The…

The amount of copper you would need to constantly convey electricity from the sunny side of the earth to the dark side would be absolutely massive. It is not an issue of common grids, as long distance high power transmission is done at many different voltages depending on the specific route, and has nothing to do with your mains voltage and frequency. Current long distance power transmission is most often used as a w…

You can use aluminium instead of copper (see HVDC Gotland).

I didn't say it's just about "connecting countries with a common grid". Switching from fossil fuels to renewable sources is much more challenging than that. However, transmitting lots of power over long distances is doable and cheaper than many people think.

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#43

Post by mseebach »

_ph_ wrote: post #22
DrStalker wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only for people that own their house; renters won't be able to take advantage of this because it's a lot of capital outlay that the home owner gets no benefit from. Same for anyone in an apartment. So the residential market for purchased electricity will never go away, but a significant reduction would still be a huge win.

If rooftop solar is profitable it doesn't matter too much who owns the house. The owner still could sell the electricity to the renters.

Indeed, the landlord can probably get away with mandating that his tenants buy a certain minimum amount of power at a certain cost giving him a fixed income to finance the capital outlay against.

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#44

Post by mseebach »

visarga wrote: post #40
CptJamesCook wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar doesn't really compete with oil. It competes with coal, natural gas, and nuclear power to power homes.

Why can't solar be used to capture CO2 and produce fuel?

It not so much that it isn't possible, just that it's significantly more efficient, by a large margin, to use solar to displace more dirty energy sources (and of those, coal is by far the highest priority).

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#45

Post by Xylakant »

narrator wrote: post #13
rogerdpack wrote: post #11

Before getting too excited, realize this is for solar in Abu Dhabi, where umm...they get tons of sunlight as it were :) Though his other graph "predicts" that solar in more temperate climes will equal natural gas in "2020?" http://rameznaam.com/2015/08/10/how-cheap-can-solar-get-very...

Another great thing about Abu Dhabi and solar is that they can use the extra solar power during the day to ramp up water desalination and store energy as clean water.

There's a lot of demand that can be shifted to high-power periods, basically anything that requires heat/cold. Modern insulation is fairly good and we do have a lot of liquids with a high thermal capacity. Generating warm water for buildings and cold coolant for aircons during peak power production would be technologically feasible, it just doesn't pay off currently since the power production curve is essentially flat (lot of base power with some peak added on top).

In the future it might also be interesting to move industries with high power demand to places with more solar power - electric arc furnaces, aluminum production, ... Some of those require a base load, but a lot of them can survive a few hours with limited power.

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#46

Post by ptaipale »

XorNot wrote: post #32
raverbashing wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because power losses will be absurd (unless you manage to find a room-temperature superconductor) Pretty simple math, if you cable has 1 Ohm/km then the distance between the Northeastern most point in Canada to Ireland is around 3000 km (or 3x10E6m) So suppose you have this very long extension cord, plug it on Canada (100V there to help the math) and plug a lamp on Ireland (an old incandescent 100W bulb, because it d…

You don't need a room temperature superconductor. High temperature superconductors can be economically refrigerated today. The problem overland is encapsulation - under the sea this goes away since the environment is much more stable (and colder).

Fixing a 3000 km long refrigerator at depth of 4 km will be an interesting challenge.

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#48

Post by tomarr »

qoobaa wrote: post #28
pavanred wrote: post #25

May be a noob question, but if we can lay down cables for internet across the ocean floor connecting the entire world, why not lay down cables to connect all electricity grids. Half the earth always faces the sun. We shouldn't need batteries at all then, right? And we always have the traditional power stations (renewable and non-renewable) to augment the load. (At least in theory?)

It's a very good question. I always thought that it's because of technical difficulties when transmitting electricity over long distances, but it turns out we already do it well (HVDC). When you think about it on a continent scale: why not move all PV panels from Germany to sunnier regions of Europe like Spain or Portugal where you can generate twice more power with them (in average 200 W/m² instead of 100 W/m²). The…

HVDC is High Voltage DC, therefore grids aren't really important. The bigger issues are losses and costs

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#49

Post by qoobaa »

tomarr wrote: post #48
qoobaa wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very good question. I always thought that it's because of technical difficulties when transmitting electricity over long distances, but it turns out we already do it well (HVDC). When you think about it on a continent scale: why not move all PV panels from Germany to sunnier regions of Europe like Spain or Portugal where you can generate twice more power with them (in average 200 W/m² instead of 100 W/m²). The…

HVDC is High Voltage DC , therefore grids aren't really important. The bigger issues are losses and costs

The question was if it's possible to use someone's else electricity when the sun isn't shining in your place. While it's technically possible and in many cases economically reasonable, you probably won't see countries giving up their electricity production and importing power from overseas - the main reason is politics.
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