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I have to say, if I was ever launching a product, I'd never even put a link for my product here. Many people in this thread are acting like overgrown toddlers. Also, why is that some poor girl or guy can't use HN to link to a product without ten million of these: "This is neat, but have you heard of my best friends app that does this already!?? links to Github "
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sigh The Matrix developers have responded to this, explaining how Matrix is different from XMPP, and why they chose to write their own protocol. https://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#what-is-the-differen...
sigh As parent said, XMPP covers all of these cases with plugins. The FAQ you link says, over and over again, "the base setup doesn't cover these features, but plugins do," and doesn't explain away writing improved plugins or XMPP spec extensions. All I see is "buttt it'ss haaaaarrdddd". > Rather than fighting over which open interoperable communication standard works the best, we should just collaborate and bridge e…
Matrix actually has a good point about the spec extensions though: if your spec is that minimal, nobody is going to be able to agree on what feature set to support. As a Schemer, I can attest to that.
>Absolutely dripping with irony.
As is your comment. Matrix made a different set of design tradeoffs, and is a legitimate protocol in its own right. And yet every time it pops up on HN, people complain about how we should all just use XMPP.
Screw that. XMPP isn't perfect, and there is room for a chat protocol that solves these problems in a different way.
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Riot is based on Matrix. If you scrolled down, it would tell you that it's got strong crypto, you can run your own servers, it's got really good cross-protocol bridges, and a ton of other stuff. And it's totally free, save the cost of running your own server if you choose to do so.
For me at least, those features would make for a stronger CTA and incentive to use it.
If you had just scrolled down a little bit more...
So not a new product from the makers of League of Legends, then
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I don't disagree that XMPP has problems, like anything, but having multiple federated protocols defeats part of the purpose of federation. Also, as far as I can tell, Matrix just carried over most of the same problems because they don't have 20 years of fixing edge cases and making sure things are scalable and easy. I'm not sure why plugins would be a pain; I'm sure making recommendations could be done better, but ot…
sigh The Matrix developers have responded to this, explaining how Matrix is different from XMPP, and why they chose to write their own protocol. https://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#what-is-the-differen...
They might as well list 'Can't talk via Skype' as a problem with XMPP, since it's just as true and Matrix is just as incapable of solving it.
As for 'requires plugins/extensions', if you think that's a problem then there's an easy fix: define a new protocol as "XMPP + the following extensions...". That requires some effort, e.g. to get servers and clients to support this new protocol, but unlike a "clean break" it wouldn't require much technical or social work.
I especially enjoyed the "no open source implementation exists" reasoning; no open source implementation of Matrix used to exist, but that didn't stop the developers ;)
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For me at least, those features would make for a stronger CTA and incentive to use it.
It says all that, right on the main page. If you had just scrolled down a little bit more...
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sigh The Matrix developers have responded to this, explaining how Matrix is different from XMPP, and why they chose to write their own protocol. https://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#what-is-the-differen...
sigh As parent said, XMPP covers all of these cases with plugins. The FAQ you link says, over and over again, "the base setup doesn't cover these features, but plugins do," and doesn't explain away writing improved plugins or XMPP spec extensions. All I see is "buttt it'ss haaaaarrdddd". > Rather than fighting over which open interoperable communication standard works the best, we should just collaborate and bridge e…
XMPP is a pretty terrible user experience, tbh, and its developer experience isn't a whole lot better.
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sigh The Matrix developers have responded to this, explaining how Matrix is different from XMPP, and why they chose to write their own protocol. https://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#what-is-the-differen...
I get the 'different philosophy' part, but I don't understand why their list of 'problems with XMPP' includes things like 'second-class citizen', since Matrix itself is a second-class citizen compared to XMPP. They might as well list 'Can't talk via Skype' as a problem with XMPP, since it's just as true and Matrix is just as incapable of solving it. As for 'requires plugins/extensions', if you think that's a problem…
I started playing around with vector (both web client and mobile app) a couple of months ago, and really like it. I haven't tried the bridge stuff just yet, but am excited to try, especially now that it should be easier. I even installed my own personal server (synapse) for my family - again to kick the tires and test stuff out. Now that you've re-branded and changed the name, you should start thinking of neat taglines...here are few (admittedly silly ones) to get started:
- Riot: Come for the decentralized chat, stay for the community.
- Riot like its a true democracy.
- Riot: Think outside the box, act outside the norm, and chat outside the silos.
- Riot: Chat disruption for the matrix.
Anyone else reminded of https://xkcd.com/927/ ?
Absolutely; as much as the Matrix people claim they're not doing that by "interoperating with other protocols" they don't seem to understand that it's exactly what they're doing. The existing standards (XMPP) already interop in exactly the same way (gateways/transports), so making another protocol instead of improving the gateway / transport story on an existing one is just silly.