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Why Law Firm Rankings Are Useless

blog.litimetrics.com

41–50 of 64 posts

Re: Why Law Firm Rankings Are Useless

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While not all cases go to trial, it is important to know what your chances would be at trial with that particular firm. Read above to my last reply. This is really a poor way to think about law firms. Is the firm a toxic tort firm? Is it an appellate advocacy firm? Is it maritime law? Is it an intellectual property dispute? A business dispute? Win percentages are totally meaningless without more information, includ…

>This metric is totally useless. You honestly believe that an opponent won't take a 90%+ trial win rate into consideration when considering a settlement? All you hear from lawyers pretrial is "our chances at trial are X" and then based on whether X is high or low, they'll make a decision to go to trial or settle.

> You honestly believe that an opponent won't take a 90%+ trial win rate into consideration when considering a settlement?

First, I'm a 7th year corporate lawyer.

Second, of course I would look at it. However, it would not be dispositive and I would likely discount it super, super highly. I have vastly superior data about the winnability of my case as a result of being the attorney on the case than I would knowing the 'win' ratio of my opponents law firm - which is almost totally irrelevant to the case at hand. Ceteris paribus, bad lawyering loses more cases than good lawyering wins cases. This in mind, the thing to know is whether or not your opponent is a bozo or competent. Regardless of your opponent's competence, you act as if he is at least as smart as you and I would litigate as hard against Ted Olsen as I would someone no one has ever heard of. The controlling factors come down to your client's budget, your opponents budget, the animus they have toward each other and, lastly, the facts.

Additionally, channel checks that I perform on opposition attorneys are far, far more sophisticated than algorithmically computed win rates. Maybe I'd use it as a data point, but the frank reality is that I have far better means at my disposal for judging the merits of a case and the efficacy of my litigation opponents including google, the phone on my desk and my judgment. Law is a very close-knit and reputationally driven profession. I do channel checks on opposing counsel frequently. It is an extraordinarily rare situation where I cannot get a second opinion, from someone who's judgment I trust, on another law firm or another lawyer when I really need one.

Finally, what is missing from this whole consideration is that law suits are not fair fights and they are highly fact and context dependent. Not every game has the same rules, the rules and the facts may be skewed. Does it matter if a particular NFL team is last in the league if they are going to be playing a HS JV team in freeze-tag? Accordingly, it is not like the win ratio of a poker player or a football team. The case itself very often is going to have a huge skew in favor of one opponent or another. If I had a winning case and you told me that my opponents were Abraham Lincoln's Zombie and Scalia's ghost, I'd still fight it.

Let's make an analogy: Let's look at batting averages as a predictor of general sports ability. But instead of confining the batting averages to major league players and major league pitchers, let's make it the life-time batting average of every American over the age of 18, for every game of stick-ball, alley-ball and beer league softball they have ever played in their lives, referreed or not, as a predictor of their ability to play "sports" generally, regardless of their age.

I think that is a fairer analogy to the 'win' ratio for trial dispositions.

Re: Why Law Firm Rankings Are Useless

#42
post #7

"To sidestep the randomness of observed outcomes, we focus on modeling the probability of a successful outcome for a given case. Secondly, to account for the context or difficulty of the case, we measure the change in the probability of a successful litigation outcome, from substituting a legal service provider in. The difficulty of the case is not important, but rather the impact a legal service provider has on that…

Right. The post links to slideshow "model" for counterfactuals given at Hulu. And I won't pretend to analyze it scientifically, but it's hard to shake the feeling that it's circular in this application.

We want to rank lawyers based on effect on outcome, not win-loss record. But it looks like the model is one that derives "counterfactual" outcomes by making comparisons based on win-loss records.

Can someone give a better lay-level discussion of the expected outcome model?

Re: Why Law Firm Rankings Are Useless

#43
post #32

Also, being a Lawyer, if someone comes to me, it's because of me, not because of the firm I am working in. And trying to rank lawyers? Why not. But what's the point. I wouldn't accept being ranked anyway.

> being a Lawyer, if someone comes to me, it's because of me, not because of the firm I am working in

Are you speaking hypothetically, i.e., 'if I was a lawyer'? I'm not an attorney but for a variety of reasons I have relatively deep insight into the legal industry, and I think this statement is generally not true.

As in any field, most business comes from referrals and networking, and much of that happens within a firm. If your career is at a top firm then you are going to build a much different network than a similar attorney who opens their own office in a strip mall. When Goldman Sachs needs an outside attorney, where do they go and who do they ask? Even ignoring referrals, just imagine who is there when you are invited to dinner by your colleague: Is it the mayor and local Fortune 500 CEO, one of whom takes a liking to you and asks you to join the board of a local charity, or is it the lovely neighbors who drive Uber or run a small medical practice, and ask for some legal tips?

Personally, I don't enjoy the hunt for status and I think it impedes socio-economic mobility, but I'm afraid that's the way it works.

Re: Why Law Firm Rankings Are Useless

#44

> By applying machine learning algorithms to data mined from court judgments... And, with that sentence, this post becomes bullshit. The overwhelming majority of disputes do not reach litigation. The overwhelming majority of litigation does not reach judgment. And then a gigantic proportion of those judgments are appealed, and a non-trivial percentage are overturned. Even at that, only on the order of a single digit-…

This is just a case study of law firm rankings in general. Popular law firm ranking systems use criteria that may not be relevant to your business. When ranking law firms, you should use a custom ranking system.

Re: Why Law Firm Rankings Are Useless

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While not all cases go to trial, it is important to know what your chances would be at trial with that particular firm. Read above to my last reply. This is really a poor way to think about law firms. Is the firm a toxic tort firm? Is it an appellate advocacy firm? Is it maritime law? Is it an intellectual property dispute? A business dispute? Win percentages are totally meaningless without more information, includ…

>This metric is totally useless. You honestly believe that an opponent won't take a 90%+ trial win rate into consideration when considering a settlement? All you hear from lawyers pretrial is "our chances at trial are X" and then based on whether X is high or low, they'll make a decision to go to trial or settle.

[deleted]

Re: Why Law Firm Rankings Are Useless

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't your whole post rely on the assumption that outcomes in the cases they measured don't correlate closely with outcomes in the (far bigger array of) cases they didn't measure? Don't you have to show that before you can definitely say their analysis is completely invalid?

Yes, it does, and yes, that is correct. Lawyers can drop clients with cases that they think are losers and refuse to take them to trial. And, very, very often, before or directly after closing arguments, if the writing is on the wall, a case settles. Additionally, what sorts of cases are we talking about? Insurance defense? Toxic torts? Data breach? The 'winnability' of these cases varies highly. There are many, many…

It is always easy to criticize a data-driven analysis by saying its assumptions could be wrong. In the real world, all analysis is based on assumptions, some of which you can always claim might not be correct. But you have to really present an argument as to why and by how much the assumption is likely to be wrong, you can't just state that the assumption might be wrong. The assumption that cases which don't settle are not at all indicative of how well a lawyer performs is a very bold claim, much bolder in my mind (admittedly I am not a lawyer) than the claim that there should be some correlation between lawyer performance and results in cases that did not settle. It is possible that lower ranking lawyers settle less often, I'd like to see the data on that.

Furthermore, on average the effects you are mentioning will wash-out, unless there is a systematic bias whereby lower ranking firms and higher ranking firms settle in different manners.

Re: Why Law Firm Rankings Are Useless

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't your whole post rely on the assumption that outcomes in the cases they measured don't correlate closely with outcomes in the (far bigger array of) cases they didn't measure? Don't you have to show that before you can definitely say their analysis is completely invalid?

Why should we expect a correlation? Why should we assume they even thought about the issue, if it isn't mentioned in their analysis?

Why should we expect there isn't a correlation? They do mention it in their analysis. At the end of the day, just because there might be a systematic bias in your result doesn't mean there is a systematic bias.

All real-world analysis (especially for observational studies) rests on certain assumptions. It is always true that these assumptions might be wrong, but it is important to think about whether or not the assumption is plausible. It seems plausible that on average, a lawyer who is able to get better outcomes when they don't settle is also able to get better outcomes when they do settle.

Furthermore, even if most cases are settled, the rare cases that do go to trial can have an outsized impact. Usually people settle because a bad judgment is devastating (as well as not wanting to pay legal costs).

Re: Why Law Firm Rankings Are Useless

#48

> By applying machine learning algorithms to data mined from court judgments... And, with that sentence, this post becomes bullshit. The overwhelming majority of disputes do not reach litigation. The overwhelming majority of litigation does not reach judgment. And then a gigantic proportion of those judgments are appealed, and a non-trivial percentage are overturned. Even at that, only on the order of a single digit-…

A large part of statistics is devoted to making valid inference from noisy samples, largely by making sensible assumptions. Even in your example, it is common practice to assess a surgeon on outcomes of surgery, even though a lot of a surgeon's work does not lead to surgery. We aren't claiming to assess the wide practice of law, just litigation. We do Litigation Analytics.

This is a great point about making sensible assumptions. Too often I see evidence that people think that data analysis should be devoid of assumptions, and any assumptions completely invalidate the analysis. In reality, almost all analysis will have some assumptions, and the good questions to ask is how plausible are the assumptions and what is the plausible impact of what happens if the assumptions are wrong.

Re: Why Law Firm Rankings Are Useless

#50
As someone who works with a tax law firm that is ranked pretty high on the legal500 (and obviously, I know a rank can be gamed relatively easily), I must say the experiences I've had with them have been excellent. For all intents and purposes, they are exactly what I would expect from a good law firm.

I worked with several "independent" lawyers before, and honestly, they are nowhere near close to the level of skill of my current law firm. In addition, they're quite responsive, much more than the average independent lawyer. And yes, they're more expensive, but not outrageously so. They seem to reach a favourable outcome faster, and seem to be more effective.

Tl;dr: Love the lawyer I work with in this firm, he gets the job done when I need him to + has a great team with broad experience to back him up. He's managed to resolve any tax issue before we even went to court.

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